reverse electrolysis for rust removal

Hmmm.. what do you guys think?
It is a manifold. Cast iron, right? Might not go as black as steel does. I never did a manifold before.
If it looks good.. great stuff!
60 AMPS!!!!!!!!!!! Whoa there big fella! Don't leave that on for long.
Actually, I tried pumping a lot of amps through some old body metal and yes, it did clean it quicker but the metal was very work-hardened for a week or so. It was so hard that I thought it would crack when I tried to hammer-form it. After a week it softened up as the excess hydrogen left the metal but I wouldn't want to do this to a good part.
So you went back to 10amps, no bubbles but the water is turning dirty?
How much soda are you using? I have been using one spoonful per gallon but found I didn't need quite that much. Not enough and you won't get the bubbles.

 

What polarity are you running? If you have the polarity reversed, you will get a lot of scum, but not much cleaning.

 

I only had the 60 amps on there for a little bit. My smart charger didn't much like it so it shut down back to 2 amps. Was just checking to make sure things were happening I have about 1/2 to 3/4 cup in 5 gallons of water. The polarity is + to the anode and - to the part. Just like the article said. I'll let her cook for a couple of days and see how it goes ... Thanks guys ..

 

So.. any progress?

 

Well come 11:00 today it will have been cookin' for 48 hours. It seems to be working although there are no bubbles. The water is completely a brownish black so something is comin' from somewhere. Maybe cast don't work like steel. I do notice the black on the anodes .. it is steel. I may put the other manifold back in for a little while. There's still some rust around the bolts that hook the exhaust pipe up. Not much but a little. All in all I think it is going to work .. we'll see .... Giz, are you a chemical engineer or something? You know a lot about this chemical stuff ...

 

Errr, pardon my Ignance, but if the black oxide is forming on the annodes doesn't that mean you have the polarity reversed? Or did I read that wrong?

 

The + is on the part. The - is on the anode. I posted this before. You are talkin' to the wrong person to ask why something is where or how it is. There are those on here that understands this sort of stuff. I ain't one of them. I just do what I'm told and look for results. I don't really care how it works. I can fly a plane but I can't build one.

 

I mean the + is on the anode the - is on the part ..

 

Umm, It has been several years since I have done any home anodizing, IIRC the - is supposed to be on the annode. But I could be wrong. I screwed up my first try by having them on wrong, so I could easily be mistaken here. I know anodizing is for Aluminum, but it's an ion exchange thing, which is what you're doing here (with Iron instead). FWIW I saved my project by catching it early enough that I could reverse the polarity and save it. If it's taking the rust off and it's non structural, what's the harm?

Oh and I'm no expert on this, I ask because I'm trying to learn.

 

I just go by what I've learned here. At the beginning of this post somebody put in a website and it is a good one. There is a link to it. In the tech archives there is a story with pictures. That's where I found about it to begin with. Gizmo, on here, seems to know all about all of this chemical stuff. (He's canadian though and doesn't have a sense of humor .. lol) ..Watch what you say to him, he'll call you an idiot ... (just kiddin' Giz, thought I'd tell you) .... I think it worked pretty good. I've got an intake manifold coming. I may do that too to get the paint off of it.

 

I just pulled a part out of my mix last night. Stake pocket from a 28 bed, rusty as all hell when I out it in the night before. Pulled it out, washed it off, after wire brushing it ALL of the rust was gone, and a good deal of the paint. To say the least impressive.

 

My set up is a five gallon plastic bucket with 1/4 rods every four inches around the inside wired together (+). My solution is five gallons of water and one cup of a&h washing soda (found in detergent aisle) I usually use 50a setting on my charger but have used 225 with supervision. The more amp the quicker it works. I put it outside when cooking for ventilation. It has worked on everything I have tried. I have plans for a 35 gal. unit and use my dc welder as power source.

 

Here is a quick question. Doesn't the anode need to be the same material as the part for this to work well? If I remember right from high school and college chem the materials need to be the same, or is that just in electroplating.
It has me wondering about the cast iron going slower than steel with steel anodes. I remember that with plating something had to give up parent material and some stuff was in solution. I know the steel and cast are similar but they are not the same. I would think that the anode and the part should be of the same material otherwise you should just be able to hang copper wire in the bucket. Did I make any sense?.....

 

I just took everything out of the cooker. I don't know what I'm suppose to expect. The big clumps of rust are gone but the surface rust is still there. I suppose I could wire wheel it off but hell I could have done that in the first place. I was lookin' for "easy". Maybe it is the cast iron thing. For damn sure something came from somewhere. On the two batches there was a bunch of rust in the bottom and suspended in the brew. One thing I never got with either batch was the forthy recipe on top like those in the pictures ... Don't know if I'm happy with this or not. Being manifolds as soon as the motor heat gets to them all will change anyway ..

 

Sorry you didn't get the results you were looking for. Like I said .. .I have no experience using cast iron in this process.
A chemical engineer? Nope.. Just someone who's been fussing with stuff for a long time and reading a lot.
The big deals here are polarity, amps, sacrificial steel and mixture.
-Part to be cleaned.. NEGATIVE. Sacrificial steel... POSITIVE. Anything else is bad, bad, bad.
-Also NO stainless steel for the sacrificial steel. This process makes it create cadmium which is deadly and illegal to dispose of without proper everything. No, you do not have to have identical types of metals for this process. It's not "technically" electrolysis but it's the best way to describe it.
-Amps.. This is meant to be a slow process to do a chemical conversion of the rust that is left over after the bulk of it is pulled off the part. Too fast and it's not complete. Also, the hydrogen that is introduced during the process is said to cause hydrogen embrittlement. I've encountered that even in body metal. After a week it was much softer than after the high-amp cooking. If you were to do a wheel spindle or spring hanger you should cook the part in an oven (as mentioned in the links I list below) or wait a couple weeks for the excess hydrogen to escape from the part. This is one reason high amps are not a good idea. Besides, safety is a concern too. If you were to grab both parts, while they were in the solution and the power was on, you would feel 10 amps. It may only be a strong tingle but 60 amps? 250??? YIPE!
-And yes, I do freak when I read someone even mention about AC and water.
-More soda does not help. It can actually hinder the process. And don't use caustic soda instead. It's CAUSTIC! That's bad.

So, Customline Vicky, a Canadian and an American walk into a Canadian bar and order beer...

These are just a few site that I got info from:
http://www.rowand.net/Shop/Tools/Electrolysis.htm
http://antique-engines.com/electrol.asp
http://www.rickswoodshopcreations.com/Miscellaneous/Rust_Removal.htm
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/andyspatch/rust.htm

When I get home Monday I might post some pics of successes I've had with this.

 

Oh my god... I can't believe it. Ok.. maybe I can.
I just read about someone using this process but reversing the + and - to put rust ON a part to fake patina!
If I catch any of you guys doing this I'll come there and brain you!
You think I have no sense of ha ha now!!!!
It's just so funny because I was always brought up to get rid of rust on cars.
Dad would have smacked me in the head (ok... no he wouldn't, he was "cool") if I left rust on cars.
"That's not how WE used to do it. Rusty cars were never 'in'...".
Ok.. rant over.
Grumpy Canadian... out.

 

Thanks Giz, learn something every day. I was afraid I had it backwards (it's why I asked, trying to learn and all).

 

Yup.. best to ask (not that I think "I" have all the answers). The last thing you want is to see the good part being eaten away!
Anyone got any pics?
I have some lousy quality ones I'll sift through... just to show some before and after.

 

Ok, the manifolds look pretty good once I took the surface rust off with a wire wheel. I just put the intake manifold in a new batch. It wasn't very bad but did have some inside. This is looking more like it should I think. I have a forthy recipe on top of the water. I never did have that with the exhaust manifolds. This is lookin' good .. I'll let you know how it turns out .. Thanks to y'all ... 'specially Gizmo .. you're a wizzard ..

 

Haha.. Man.. I just read and experiment. Lots of bruises, cuts and ouchies occur often. No major "booms" yet. Or none that I have to own up to!
Just think of all you are learning by doing this.
Make sure you pass it on.
The inside of the manifold may not get as clean as you'd like.
This would be due to the "line of site" thing. If you really want to get the inside cleaner you could place a small rod for an anode inside (but not touching) the manifold. Difficult to hold it in place but with some fussing, it is possible.
Or fill it with molasses for a week. Really slow but amazing results.

 

OK, intake manifold produced all kinds of "recipe". Let it cook for 11 hours and things look fine. Didn't have much surface rust on it to begin with but apparently was some inside. I put one anode down inside the manifold. Clean as a whistle. I think I've got this down. I don't have any rusty steel to try it on ... Thanks a ton to all of you.

 

Glad you are happy with it.
You have NO rusty steel to try it on? Sheesh!
Lucky you.
I can keep a batch tunning 24/7 for a long time.

 

this is definitely a thread that needs stickied , its that handy.

 

I'm glad you find it handy.
Have you de-rusted anything with these methods lately?