Technical Ripping Off The Scab!

Now that I have the major components for my B4Cdan AV8 project, I started ripping into the tudor itself. Here's the first roadblock I've hit...that didn't take long!

I removed everything in front of the firewall preparing to yank the banger out and start frame cleanup and modifications. When the radiator came off, I found this...






So, naturally, I thought I was going to have to source a crossmember (and I may still), but I remembered that I had picked up a dropped aftermarket unit by chance years ago. So digging in the catacombs, I found the piece...



Trouble is, it's not long enough to REPLACE the cracked unit, BUT it does fit between the frame rails and OVER the outside ends of the OG unit...





So, the way I see it, I can either A) rip out the original cracked unit and replace it with a sourced piece, or B) cut out the center of the original, leaving 3" or so attached to each frame rail and weld the new(er) crossmember to these stubs.

If B), I would assume full welds along the gap between the frame and top of new member as well as 3" welds along the bottom edge of the stubs, front and back. Should I rosette weld the new piece to the stubs on the vertical surfaces?

Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.

 

Man for the amount of work involved to feel good about those two splices to get that to work I’d just find a good A cross member to be truthful.

I bet what you have works perfect for a set of 32 rails narrowed to fit behind the grill shell

 

I think it can be done, but you may be right.

It could be for narrowed rails, but that would not explain the slotted holes for the radiator support bolts. I really think this piece is intended to bridge the same gap that I have...though not convinced.

 

Replace the whole thing. Easier to do it right now while things are apart than it will be later when you say, “gee I shoulda replaced that when I was building the car.”

 

box the frame, then weld in the crossmember you have...????

I think that's what it was designed for

 

I would replace the whole crossmember with another original one and rivet it in .

 

I think Jim is right, it was meant for installation on a boxed or aftermarket frame. Full length replacements are available and they aren’t that expensive. I put one in my roadster, saves a lot of time and aggravation. Better than scabbed together solutions unless you’re looking for that battle-worn look. In that case just clean it well, push it back together and weld the cracks and weld the plate on. I’ve seen plenty of old frames with old repairs like that.

 

Seems the original crossmember was replaced at one time, evidenced by those bolts holding it in. Do the same again. A good A crossmember is about $100 at the most. Just make sure you get a 30-31, as the radiator pads are lower. If you use a 28-29 the radiator and hood will sit too high and never line up correctly.

 

Brett, Speedway motors has a cross member for less than 80 bucks, the one you have looks like it's been cut to fit a boxed frame, I'm sure you could make it work but if it were me I would opt for a new one, save time and just feel better about it from a safety standpoint. HRP

 

I am going to digress with the masses and agree with what @bchctybob said. That old repair is pretty damn cool. I have a frame with one similar on the rear. I would flip it over and fix the cracked areas and run it for posterity!

 

Everybody does things different, When I was a kid and all I had was a arc welder I welded up a front crossmember that looked very similar to Brett's, granted my welding wasn't the best but it lasted until I decided to remove a couple of leaves, when I removed the spring hangers the weld had cracked along with the rest of the crossmember, it was in two separate pieces.

I replaced my front crossmember with another original piece, that was more than 30 years ago and to my knowledge the guy that bought that model A is still driving it. HRP

 

My question is how long has that 'fix' held up? Find the guy that 'fixed' it like that and ask him what he'd do. Better yet, have him do it again. Your crossmember is for a boxed frame.

 

Replacing it is the best way to go, and its not that expensive. Remember that this thing ultimately controls your life expectancy, so why take a chance with a damaged part.........no matter how nostalgic it might look.

 

With the parts you already have, I like @squirrel s idea. I wouldn't replace it until the body was off and the frame checked for twist and /or racked (parallelogram). If I was going to replace it with a stock crossmember, I'd rivet it in .

 

Just out of curiosity what do the edges look like of the “replacement” crossmember look like. From you pics the edges look crooked so I’m thinking it was cut out of another frame as a new one I would think would have edges that are straight.

 

It appears that the piece was cut out of plate, then stamped into shape, thus the uneven stretching on the ends. THE edges look like a CNC laser/plasma or maybe a shear cut. really clean and no saw marks.

 

Way, way back before you could buy new crossmembers, I found similar damage to the frame on my '32 5W. I cut the top out of the crossmember and fabbed a new top to lower the front another inch, then welded it in, like HRP, with a stick welder. I drove it (with a BBC) for years then sold it to a friend, who again, drove it for years. Last time I saw the car it still had the beam axle under it and the crossmember looked the same. We did crazy things back then....

 

So, It sounds like, if I box the frame (and everyone I talk to says to box the frame), do I completely remove the old crossmember and weld the new piece in after boxing, or do I fit the boxing plates around the existing crossmember, cut the bad out of the center, and use the stubs to locate the new piece and weld it all up?

 

I would sell the crossmember you have in the HAMB classifieds and buy the full length version and install that. Preferably with rivets but if you can’t handle the rivets, weld it in, there will be much more and better weld area.
What kind of drivetrain are you going with? You may not really need to box the frame.

 

‘37 21-stud flathead. Everyone I’ve talked to said to box the frame!

 

Are you going to jig the frame up when welding on it? If no, you should certainly have the replacement crossmember firmly bolted, then welded into place. Then trim your boxing plates to go around it.

If you have a full chassis jig to hold the rails in proper place, then maybe you could box the rails before welding the new crossmember in.

But I'm guessing this major fab is kinda new to you, right? That's why I suggest bolting in a Ford crossmember, then maybe adding weld after it's straight and tight.

 

If you are building towards a ‘40s-‘50s style, myself I would probably not box the frame. Just make sure that it’s sound (no cracks or deep rust damage) and straight. But if you’re going for a more custom or street rod approach then boxing, filling unused stock holes and smoothing everything is more appropriate. There’s no doubt that boxing will make for a stiffer, stronger basic frame but for 120 hp, old brakes and skinny tires, that good old stock Ford frame is plenty strong.
As always, style dictates details.

 

No need for a boxed frame with even a built flathead. Find another crossmember and switch it out. Save yourself a ton of unnecessary trouble.

 

@bchctybob 120hp would be wildly ambitious for this flatty! Might make 85!!! Probably much less!

 

Box the frame and weld in the short one.

 

Reminds me of the American Hot Rod episode when Boyd and employee butted heads over boxing a frame.
I wouldt box a frame for an early flat head.
As far as being safer boxed, I could argue the point that boxing it would transfer more collision energy into the cockpit area than left un-boxed. I’m sure others could make a counter argument.
But, to each their own. Just build and enjoy.

 

Concerning the current crossmember, this is the 2nd time it has failed. Its time to replace it. Personally, I would really look over the entire frame to be sure this crossmember is not the only damage.

Then, buy the part that fits your car's frame, unless you want to box your frame. You can sell the wrong one you have now.

As far as boxing your frame, back in the day, most people were planning on putting more HP into the car hen the flathead could produce, so boxing was pretty much standard procedure. Its a lot of work if its something your not going to need with your motor choice.

If you ever think you may put more HP on it then the flathead has, box it. If boxing it makes you feel better, box it.

What would I do? I would be putting more HP into the car then the flathead can produce, and should I want to sell it in the future, the boxed frame would be a value adder.

Good luck with your choices. Gene

 

@anthony myrick it’s funny as when I hear boxing the frame and how it’s a safety issue is the episode of Boyd’s show lol.
I don’t think it’s right or wrong to box the frame but what your trying to accomplish. I think you need to figure out what’s going into the car and how your going to mount the motor and transmission. If you plan on mounting the motor like a flathead or even a SBC by the front crossmember it’s fine not to box. Now if your mounting the engine by rubber round hurst style mounts off the side rails then you may want to box it. Both motors are fairly heavy and may twist in the top rail as it’s only supported by less then 1/8 steel .
So @brett4christ if your not going to support the motor by the front crossmember then a partial box maybe in order. What’s cool is you can use original 1932 ford motor mounts and will be a bolt on to your flathead in the front by the waterpumps. You can also use a v8 crossmember or adapt some tabs to a original crossmember to mount the 21 studder

 

how does a crossmember even crack like that?

 

The axle bottoms out with the spring contained and top of crossmember takes all the impact