Riveting sealed containers?

This is the key statement to the whole thread. HOW are you gonna seal up that last side of your tank?

Are you really that flexible, and are your hands and arms that small?

If this tank is exposed for everybody to see, maybe the rivets are a cool visual effect. But if not exposed, just forget them.

How about you roll a tank, weld the inner baffles, flange the ends with an outward lip and solder said lip. Then, drill and install rivets (with both ends accessible) through the outie lip.

 

The tank actually will be fully exposed (for a modified), so authenticity is key. Not much for the idea of fake heads either.

But YES! The last end cap is the key and I've had some thoughts on that actually... I'm going to try and describe this without a drawing since I don't have a scanner in my presense...

The tank would be a standard oval shape. It would be constructed of a bottom half, top half, two end caps and three baffles that would double as internal supports. It would also have two "bonnets"; one for the filler and one for the sender mounting pad. Filler at the left end, sender at the right end. If I used flush mounted rivenuts to attach the bonnets and just used screws and made them removeable I think I could get my digits in there to smear some Proseal around. The key would be getting to the back rivet heads used for the baffles/supports.

This just made me think of something. Anyone have good pictures of how Pinkees built the gas tank no the 29 rpu? I remember seen it constructed in s similar fashion. Don't remember what it was made of though. Might have been copper.

EDIT: Just found a picture of the rpu gas tank that Pinkees did. Looks to be Aluminum and has two baffles instead of three. It's on Photo 15 of the build book in this link:
http://pinkeesrodshop.com/projects/alb_1929_Ford_Pickup/LOADED_Judges_Book/

Also, it's not riveted.

 

ask the guy at the rad shop for the ****er and tin...heat will draw solder into most things for the last end....a 1 piece tank w/ baffles and ends sounds easier to me and you could get fancy with the bottom seam with the help of a sheet metal pro...i have been collecting stuff (tools and materials) to solder the tanks on my old harley ...so far it seems 60/40 lead is the way to go

 

If a period look is the most important objective I would stay away from the aluminum. Find a local roofer/gutter shop and have them roll the oval out of 18gauge copper. Roofing solder will give the exact period look and it will take the solder far better than galvanized steel. They will have the Pextco rollers in most shops and can put the beads in for strength. If you look closely at period modifieds you'll usually see tool marks from the flange being folded over to create the joint the the solder was then drawn through it.

 

Copper would be amazing, but an overkill and really expensive too. The tank will be painted, so nobody would ever know anyway.

A lot of tanks are made from aluminum and I've been itching to learn more about shaping aluminum. As was mentioned by a good friend of mine, vibration and aluminum don't get along too well. However, making a good strong mount with vibration isolation would make things work, I believe.

So someone tell me one thing.... after everything that's been said, why wouldn't I just build a steel tank and have it sealed so the fuel doesn't attack the metal? Just thinking...

 

Brazing is a good option as well.

And don't forget the baffles.

Gonna have a sending unit?
There's your access hole if needed.

 

Yes, it will have a standard VDO type float switch with a cap over it.

I need to draw this and take a picture... Give me a little bit. Pictures are worth a thousand words!!

 

Okay, here's my quick and sloppy design sketch. I think you guys get the general idea of what I'm trying to accomplish though...

 

Hey long time ago I I made a tank for a motorcyle out of chevy headlights when I was done I took it to a plating shop and had it tin plated sealed the leaks excellent and was cheap if you are going to solder it you need a heavy iron not a torch flame
I have an electric one that will work, I have used it on radiaters with good results
can send it to ya if needed you will also get better results with a galvanized tank go to any small sheet metal shop with your drawing n they can whip it out for ya and save a lot of labor on your part
hope this helps
Ken

 

How are you gonna make the sender and cap flanges, with the curve to them? And how are you gonna rivet those?

 

Just priced materials... Stainless is OUTRAGOUS even at the price I can get it for so it's out of the question. Turns out this will be an aluminum tank with a nice cooshy mount. Probably 3003 at .063 thickness.

I'm going to make a buck for the entire tank. I will probably use a slip roll or just anneal it and work it to the right shape. The filler/sender bonnets/flanges will not be blind riveted. Instead I'm going to insert Rivnuts into the skin around the access openings and then the flanges will get a gasket and screws. Probably #8 or #10 fillister or panhead screws.

WOW! That's very generous Ken!! Thank you! I'll let you know if I end up needing that

BTW Ken... where are you located?

 

Hey Scoot, with that end cap design, you don't need to get in the tank once the ends are on. And you could eliminate the extra large holes at the filler and gauge, too.

At least that's what it looks like to me. Both ends of the rivets are visible in the end, right,? So the tank can be built, ***embled with the ends off for access. Then put on the ends and finish riveting and sealing.

The Aircraft sealer stuff sounds good. Than you could use aluminum rivets which are a LOT easier to set than steel ones.

This is a great projct, you done yet?

Frank

 

I could put the caps on last, and it will get welded around the outside edge, but that still leaves the rivets to be a leak source from the inside. So it will still need something to keep the fuel from getting to the outside rivets. It will be a snap to seal the rivets on the baffles though if I put the endcaps on last. As well as the lengthwise seam.

I'll be ready to build airplanes immediately following! I've always thought it would be cool to own my very own P51 Mustang! Riiiiight... HAHA!

 

Ken's deal with the plating after ***emby sounds right, too. If we still do that here in the US.

 

TIG IT! .........been fabricating & modifying motorcycle gas tanks for over 20 years and it's the only way to fly. The stuff used in motorcycle tanks is called "CREAM" or "tank Seal" tow name brands and neither of which work. The **** dissolves and just clogs the **** out of everything. Most new bikes with few exceptions have steel gas tanks coated from the factory. Go to the HD factory in York Pa. and you wanna see how they coat the tanks you'll laugh your *** off. Before they made jigs to spin the tanks after pouring the coating inside they would just shake the gas tank to get the coverage of the entire inside (yeah that works real well)


If you want to go with the riveted look which sounds kinda cool aircraft looking why not put a fuel bladder inside the riveted tank. Or rivet the sheet metal around a commercial fuel cell. This way you get the sealing qualities and the look you want. If you ever have a problem with the fuel cell drill out the rivets and remove the panel replace it and re-rivet just a thought.

and Stainless is the only way to go but make sure you use stainless rivets

 

Some good ideas here. Thanks FNG!

In response...

YES! TIG for sure!!!

Bladder... if I could find something that is the shape, size and has the filler, sender and drain in the right place, I would ABSOLUTELY consider it. Guessing I won't though. (yes, I'm super **** about the design).

Material, I agree stainless is ideal, but even 20 gage is going to be hard to work with when I'm forming the end caps and baffles (3/4" lip all the way around). Not to mention I just got quoted a sheet that was very close to being TWICE the price of aluminum.

Yeah, I know that sealer you're talking about... white stuff called "KREME". It blows. I always used POR15 sealer which is silver. It takes forever to apply but when it's prepped correctly is flawless. The stuff the radiator shops use is pretty much the same but is purple or red in color.

 

Check out the Roundy round race car guys they have to run fuel cells. ATL is the only one that comes to mind but I'll ask a buddy of mine tonight he's an old time short track racer and has built some pretty cool stuff.

I'm not sure what the motor vehicle laws are in your state but here in the Peoples Republic of New Jersey aka the Corzine communist state the DMV guys would have a field day with a gas tank like your describing. This way you can show em hey look **** head it's got a fuel cell inside or a fuel bladder(another idea just popped into my head) just like the NASCAR boys run so no KFB (Ka ****ing Boom) when someone rear ends me.

We had a local Modified guy in a small shop next to my old place that I was constantly welding his car back together every Monday afternoon. He had what looked like a rubber bag or bladder stuffed inside his fuel cell. He told me some even had a giant sponge type material inside.

The cool thing about using the rivets with the f/c inside is you can stick a wad of bubble gum on one of the seams when your at a car show or cruise night and ask some gawker if he's got a fresh piece for the ride home.

 

2 end caps at the finished edge,
one to seal it off that you can solder, seal , weld whatever you need to make sure it seals ,

then the finished end with the rivets thats just for looks and does not need to be leal proof...

there is more than one way to skin a cat , and the cat does not like any of them ! .....