He SOLD that car and got his price for it...I don't know how much heartache is really involved. I built a pretty unique Pontiac years ago, and ended up owning it TWICE...I got it back after two more owners did their thing to it, then I did some more and sold it again. I've seen it three or four times since then, and it's been radically changed each time by successive owners. Heartbroken? Not at all! I built the car my way, flogged the hell out of it all one Summer, got rid of it, bought it back, changed it some more, then sold it again! Each time I've seen it turn up in different incarnations, I've been stoked to see that subsequent owners have taken it and made it their own. At last sighting, it had a different engine and tranny in it (I had a Chevy in it, it was running a Poncho when I saw it), it had a new hood, mostly new interior, different wheels, more bodywork, a new nose and grille and different paint (three different times!), and a host of other major mods. It was an ex-drag car with some long standing local history when I first got it. I left it's old paint job in tact and rebuilt the car with a street drivetrain and drove the heck out of it. When I got it back, it was all in red primer, and I left it that way. In later sightings it was all white, then gold metallic, then lastly, bright yellow. Funny thing, people I don't even know still come up to me and say "Man, I saw your Pontiac the other day...still looks hot, Dude!" Ha...MY Pontiac???? Haven't owned it in 15 years...and it's been altered, changed and the original parts I used are scattered to Kingdom Come...but it's still "MY" car? I don't think so!
BINGO! OGNC is right. This is what doesn't make sense. As far as I can tell, NOBODY is saying the RR should be in a museum. This makes as much sense as an "ol skool" flat black wide whitewall mini truck. Can you do it...YES! Does it make sense...NO! Can you argue about it forever...YES! Fuckin STUPID.
I wouldn't call it anyting like that, especially without knowing how much of the purchase price was recovered by the sale of the body. and I don't think that's known by anyone except MilesM and FivesDaddy. Fuckin' Stupid was the time I got suckered into blowing ovet $7000 on a worthle$$ unsellable and annually more costly timeshare. Money happily spent on one's favorite hobby can rarely be called stupid.
he hehehe..I gotta say... You are correct DrJ. BUT.....The move by MilesM does "appear" to be stupid to those of us without the knowlege of how much money changed hands. --------------------- On a related note, I am setting here thinking about all the posts about "barn find" old timey hot rods that have been slated for "street rodderish upgrades". Every time one of those posts come up, everyone on here CRIES "OH HELL NO!!!!! ARRRRRGGGGGHHHH" Is this situation with the RR really any different? Just my 2¢
I've avoided this post for days... But I just read through ALL of the posts and something struck me... I agree with Grim, I don't see the RR as anything particularly significant. I would think that any one of the Shifter's cars were more significant as far as low-buck "Look What I Can Do" hot rods. The Roach Rod was more significant as a "Luck What Us HAMBers Can Do" statement than anything else. How many HAMBers came here because of the Rod and Custom article? I do think it was a cool car and can't get the image of Sam doing doughnuts in the open lot out of my head... But that being said I read through everything and truely understand every side of this but I can't escape the idea that the whole deal just kinda sucks... It just doesn't feel right to me. I really, in my gut, can't fathom the whole thing. All the arguments aside, knowing that the Roach Rod doesn't exist anymore just makes me sad regardless how "Significant" it was. I don't know... Fuck me, fuck you, Fuck off... Whatever...
It just dawned on me that you guys aren't arguing over the Roach Rod... You're arguing over a person's right to do with what he wants to his property.* The owner of the Roach Rod's body told me in a phone conversation "I still don't understand why Miles just didn't build a different car..." I told him well, he didn't because he has the right to do whatever he wants with it... we don't have to like it. The other issue here is that of character. We have people speaking about others' character that haven't even ever MET the person. Sure, you may THINK you know someone by what they post on a messageboard, or by what you have seen in a magazine... but you really don't KNOW people until you MEET them. Same goes for their ability to CREATE and COMPOSE a running and driving HOT ROD. The final issue is that of the Roach Rod itself... I get the feeling NOBODY here thinks that it was a sound financial and otherwise smart thing to part the car out. As for me... I'm dissapointed, if anything, at this point. Dissapointed in seeing the funnest car I ever built get taken apart, and dissapointed in some of your comments about me. The only saving grace is that I'm me... and you're you. Sam.
Personally I'm talking about the car, nothing else... I miss it and it seems a shame... But then again I'm me and not anybody else too...
Man, you are sooo right. And I'm sure Kenny will be happy to accept your brother's appology. That was a pretty cool car - don't think too many can doubt that. But what do you do at this point really? This entire post is a repeat from when we first heard it was going to go down this way.
I agree with you sam. Its too bad it got taken apart, its one of the cars that really inspired me to get on with mine. but its now his to do as he pleases. There is no such thing as a car too nice to cut up. Id cut a b400 in a heart beat to make it my car. As far as historicly signifigant cars go, cars like, Hirohata merc, the R&C dream car, Ala Kart, the Isky T, the list could go on, they survived and were kept nice, and will stay that way. How many cars over the years have been sold/parted out/cut up that were huge and revolutionary in their time? 99% of them i would bet. we have the pics, Sam had his fun, was done with the car, So who cares? it will be remembered here, thats what counts. all you poeople crucifying Sam over this are just Jealous, plain and simple. you wish you had built it, and had the recognition that car had. get over it, go build your own and be happy. Opinions are like assholes, everyones got one, some just stink alot more than others. ~Aaron
Its funny you should mention the AlaKart. It was last owned by a long time family friend, Nick Vacarro. He retold me the story of the car from his purchase to the day he sold it, bittersweet to say the least. Next time I get him in the shop I want him to tell it to me again so I can transcribe it here for you to read. But from the accounts I have read in magazines and such over the years compared to what really happened and why are quite different. But I will tell you this, the wrong guy got labeled an asshole for the way things went down. Seems when a car gets magazine time and fame, the owner of the car can no longer do as he sees fit. The angry mob decides what is allowed and I think that applies somewhat here. We make a lot of illogical decisions building a hot rod. Sometimes they make no sense whatsoever to those outside the process. I am sure Miles would thank you for your concern about his financial well being regarding the "parts" and he may just do that. I hoped to carry on the tradion of the car and leading by example. Sam showed us how to build a really fun car on the cheap, I hoped continue in the same footsteps Sam set out and to show you guys how do do things you may not have thought of, on the cheap with a minimum of specialty tools. I hope this thread gets locked soon. Look for the next installment tomorrow night.
Before this gets locked... I just want to give a shout out to my momma, my sista Laqueesha, by homie Arnett, my bruthuh Lewis... my main dawg Squeekie and my mailman... Carl!!!! Lock away ryan... Sam.
Before this thread gets locked I'd like to apologize to you, Elpolacko, for not acknowledging your how-to on bending the big tubes. It's interesting, well explained, and a definite plus for anyone considering building a perimeter frame. When I logged on to the thread quite a bit of dust had already been kicked up and the valuable info you were sharing had been back-burnered. I look forward to your next installment. Mike
I guess I need to add more smilies so that you know that my post was cynicism toward myself and not you. I've seen your work, I'm impressed. I'm sure if you saw the scope of the ERP system I'm implementing, you would be too. The opinion comment was toward those that had expressed them, on all sides. I never called Sam an asshole, just thought it was strange that he considers everyone who isn't a personal friend to be a sheep. So baaaah. Anyways, I love that picture Sam posted. And frankly that's the only valid commentary I have. Peace. Danny
Ok... so not EVERYONE who isn't my friend is a sheep... just the ones who flip flop and crap and seem to follow the herd are... Someone's comment saying he didn't learn much from the build up of the Roach Rod kinda hurt. I spent more time doing how-to's on that one car than he has spent on the HAMB as a whole... so it kinda sucks, especially when it was how-to's like that that made this place what it is. For those that are new, or forgetful, there was a time when there were no "how-to" posts. On the build up of the Roach Rod... I spent HOURS documenting and sharing info... I can remember posting on: How to make bungs that weld into tubing so the tubing does not collapse. How to adapt F-100 brakes onto '39 Ford spindles How to properly set up a transverse front end so it doesn't bind How to make a spoon pedal out of a Datsun gas pedal How to Make your own tubing bender out of wood How to bend tubing to make a roadster belt line How to suspend a rear end with an "in tact" rear wish-bone. How to make your own two-two barrel SBC intake manifold. How to make progressive linkage How to make a deck lid from scratch and accidentally add compound curves to it. How to do a bear-claw latch for it How to make a simple frame mount for a Hurst motor mount. How to make a track nose out of a '53 Chevy pickup cab roof How to make a track grill out of flat stock aluminum I also showed everyone how the body was constructed, how I made tail lights out of T-bird parking lights and Impala tail lights, how I hung the swing pedals and made the clutch linkage out of Model A brake parts... and a few others I'm probably forgetting. Steve even did a how to on how to build a hood for the Roach Rod. Sam.
The whole issue is that many of us hated to see a cool car essentially dis-assembled so's the parts could be used for other things when the parts themselves were not hard to obtain elsewhere. The arguments drifted a little into what's right or wrong and what a person should/shouldn't do, but I think this is the real heart of the matter... Some of us are just bummed that this is what happened to that cool little car... that's all.
Sam, it's those articles that created the bond between this board and the car. Otherwise it would just be someone else's anonymous build. And it's because of that bond that they're so aghast at the idea of ripping it apart for it's engine and front end. But that's hot rodding. That's the feeling the restorers have toward us. Bigger and better, right... PS, I wish you had been my wood shop teacher, all I have left from that class is a stupid coffee cup hanger and a nasty scar on my right hand.
I suree wish someone would repost some of those tech posts of the roach rod build up so some of the FNGs could see it. I also wish someone would rip all the drama outta this thread and save ElP's tube bending technique in the tech-o-matic.
It would be much easyer for ElP to do a Quick rehash of the TECH from Part 1 on the Part 2 post. And it would be up to the rest of the people on the HAMB to not contaminate that one with Drama...
yes I too would like to see those "how to's" maybe Sam, if you still have the pictures you could show us again how you did all that. El Po's tech will be archived, no doubt about it. this has been an interesting thread, combining "tech", drama and history being one of the "Tech Editors" I am tempted to wash all the drama and save only the build techniques... but on some levels I think this thread should be saved en toto as historical reference, with every response exactly as posted. nah... we don't want a drama archive do we?
i think that would be a neat thing to do... no regrets on what i have posted. maybe someone will understand why it was a crying shame to disassemble RR. for me it has nothing to do with cost or the people involved... i do however understand the preservation of something that actually has significant history. ever held something old and wondered what, when, who and why it got into your hands? ever felt a certain urge to protect that item from being destroyed? i have.. to me, its like destroying a WW1 or WW2 uniform just so you can wear it everyday ...because "thats what it was meant to do" or "the previous owner sold it, he obviously didnt give a shit about it".... the later was probably the most idiotic statement ever made to date and its condusive to the general attitude around here. without getting into my opinions further, id like to close out with a fact... "stupid backroad hillbillys suck."
I still think it is a shame........ It's weird I don't know Sam, I never saw the Roach Rod in person, but thinking about all this this really upsets me.... I don't hate anyone over it, it just seems like a mistake. It just doesn't make any scense to me. Even putting the importance of that little car aside, it just doesn't add up. It really doesn't. I'm sure there will be some neat new cars built out of it, but they could have been built just as easily, and probably cheaper, while leaving the Roach Rod intact. Anyway, good luck, nice frame.
sheeez steve , guess you shoulda read the lable before you opened up that can . I have seen this work in progress first hand , all i can say is wow ,and once you all see it i am sure ya all will concur. great job as always polako
One point that has not been brought up about the roach rod is one that most would agree is a common result when someone buys anothers car or hot rod. I have been in that position myself once,and it is one that not everyone can enjoy. If the car is such, that it is of historical significance-what does one or CAN one do to it that is not detracting from the charachter or value of said car....... I personally am not cut out to be a caretaker of a museum [or a car] that would have to be stored or given special care to preserve it for its posterity. I can relate to the second [or later owners] of this car's situation -as I have owned a ......HISTORIC HOT ROD.....built in 1961 A model A pickup channelled with a full tilt Flatttie. That particular car was well documented and in almost perfect state of preservation. I can see how the new owner would not want to be stuck in a situation I described above and I certainly dont blame him for taking it apart and re doing it to his tastes and the Ideas he had for it. AFTER ALL -he bought it- it was his to do with as he saw fit..... I think Sams old car was a really neat old car [and WAS a "celebrity" ]-but to say it was as significant ,as a historic hot rod like Isky's T is simply just a compliment given to it and shouild be taken in that context. NOW IN 25 years we will have to rethink & revisit this and SEE if it was a historic hot rod or not........But not until then can it qualify any more than a hundred other Hambers equally interesting cars....... I too look forward to Steves take ,on its Clone's- construction..he will have a clean slate and can probably actually improve the car as I stated above.....[Not being derogative,just making an observation].
I just want to know what happened to the "IDIDIT" steering box brace. If it's lying unused in a box of bits somewhere can I have it??(where the fuck are the smileys?) Mart.
The Jalopy Journal
