Roadster Windshield Post Question

On my roadster conversion project, it is going to work out better (I think) to pivot the WS post lower than Ford did.

Is there any reason that 30-31 and 32 stanchions came up part way on the WS frame?

Can I move the pivot down like in the lower picture?

 

Mine would actually blow in over powering the lower seal at speed before I chopped the w/shild. I'd be afraid that the top of the W/shied would fold over above the new piot point at speed.

 

I was wondering about that. That is probably why they pivoted it where they did, to keep a little force on the bottom.

I guess it is back to the drawing board...

Neal

 

I think the pivot point was chosen, so the windshield could be folded forward, and lay flat over the cowl. And i think the 32 has a bigger rounder cowl. Thus higher mounting point. My 30 Roadster stanchions has a small bulge at he lower backside, to prevent it to fold over backwards.

 

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I think the pivot point was chosen, so the windshield could be folded forward, and lay flat over the cowl. And i think the 32 has a bigger rounder cowl. Thus higher mounting point. My 30 Roadster stanchions has a small bulge at he lower backside, to prevent it to fold over backwards.


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That make good sense also. I am using 30-31 posts that have the little tab, so mabe I would be OK. I will check the fold down situation though.

This is what I mocked up. The lower stanchion will be trimmed to fit the beltline.



Do I trust that little tab on the post to hold the WS up under speed?

Any more thoughts on this?

Thanks,

Neal

 

I reworked the lower stanchions on my '31 to allow the little stop ("tooth") at the rear of the post pivot to move further into the stanchion and thus leaning the windshield back a little more.

 

The stantions won't fold back. My problem was the frame moving back inside the stantions. What will keep the frame and glass from blowing in on you at the top while the stantions stay in their correct position with the pivot point moved to the bottom?

I made a little stainless clip attached to the stantion to work as a stop for the frame. Mine couldn't blow all the way in, but it blew in far enough so that it was no longer in line with the stantions. (looked ugly) Again, mine blew in at the bottom pivoting on the stock upper frame to stantion bolt.

 

Another thing: The cones that go inside the swivel points are critical to getting any real holding power when you tighten the wingnuts, and lots of different suppliers have made the repro ones over the years. One current catalog lists three grade--street rodder, crummy repro, and repro! Shop around until you find ones that will tighten.

 

Tommy - I am just talking about moving the pivot point of the post down lower. The windshield will still attach to the post at the top, like stock. (The post in the pic still needs to be chopped)

The W/S will be chopped a little more and will be layed back further than stock, so I would think it would have a hard time blowing in at the bottom, but if so I could add tabs to the post or stanchion like you desciribed. My boss had to do that on his 29 raodster.

Neal

 

My 32 does ok in the 'bottom blowing back' bit due to the weatherstrip keeps it from moving back over the cowl eyebrow.

Here's a pic of my friends 28 and the tabs he made.
The windshield is stock - deluxe - height and the tabs do the job.

 

Tommy, my w/s blew in at 80 MPH. It pushed the w/s hard against my already white knuckles! I drilled and tapped a small hole in the lower stanchion and installed a short screw>

 

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Another thing: The cones that go inside the swivel points are critical to getting any real holding power when you tighten the wingnuts, and lots of different suppliers have made the repro ones over the years. One current catalog lists three grade--street rodder, crummy repro, and repro! Shop around until you find ones that will tighten.

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I bought original posts and repro stanchions from hammeredabone here on the HAMB. The stanchions look high quality with a nice machined cone at the pivot. Hopefully they work...

How about wing nuts and the upper cones? Is the Speedway stuff any good? Or who should I order hardware from?

Neal

 

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Tommy - I am just talking about moving the pivot point of the post down lower. The windshield will still attach to the post at the top, like stock. (The post in the pic still needs to be chopped)



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DUH You even had a picture and I didn't understand what you were asking. Is this the first sign of sinility? If it is just shoot me.

 

Neil or Paul or anyone ,
How much is your W/S going to be chopped from deluxe height? The reason I ask is I'm trying to determine how much I can chop mine without encountering too much wind turbulence over the top of the W/S.Obviosly I'd like to go 2" chop(11 1/2"W/S height) and lay it back also a little, but my seats are stock seats.I'm 5'10". I've mocked it up with wood and masking tape and the top of the W/S comes to about eye level when "chopped" 2". Should I just stay with a deluxe height W/S? BTW,I got a great deal on the seats( lebarron Bonney) so I'm very reluctant to modify the seating position.
Sorry to barge in on your post, but a related question.
Don

 

My cones, cast wing nuts etc. are from Wescott.
Nice chrome and they're holding up nicely.

(Bout 17 years old.)

Similar items I've bought from Speedway have been equally nice.

The only thing I recommend against no matter where you get it are the chrome plated wing-bolts that go into the upper corners left and right so as to retain the top.
Loosen these and the top will fold.

I had the top right one come loose on the freeway and what probably saved me is the top is a bit of a wedge shape and the wind didn't get under it.
Even so, it still tried to lift.

I killed a couple of birds with one stone by machining an aluminum insert that slid down into the stanchion post and was JB Welded in.
The insert had a step so the upper diameter was the same diameter as the stanchion top OD.
What was nice was that the sharp edged upper point of the stanchion now had a nicely rounded piece protecting people from hand and arm cuts as well as the stanchion didn't need to be padded for the cockpit cover.
An important consideration if the car is left outside all day.
As mine was when I was at work. No fun getting into a roadster on a 100 degree day unless the cockpit's been shaded.

Along with the aluminum insert, I machined a square ended point on the end of a couple of stainless allen bolts.
These were installed along with a regular stainless nut that could be tightened against the tops cast block locking the top retaining bolt in place.
The locking nut - plain nut, not a nylock or similar - probably would have helped the stock style cast wing-bolts to stay in place, but the problem that I see with the wing-bolts is the point is too shallow.
The allen bolts mentioned above have about a 45 degree angle on them as well as the about 3/16" pin end machined on the ends.
The aluminum insert in the stanchions was drilled to accept the 3/16" pin.

I don't leave the pivot bolts free to pivot either.
There are thin flat stainless washers under them and they are tightened once the top is in place and the retaining bolts on and tight.
That gets rid of two more places to rattle.

Far as the 31 goes - it's in storage right now and on hold - I plan to make the top folding mechanism, but I will buy the oak bows.
The other stanchion nuts etc. are chrome plated rounded end acorn nuts. Available at Orchard Supply fwiw and USA made.
I'll do the machined stainless allen bolt and lock nut bit again.

Incidentally, the 32 top irons will fit the 30-31 - and probably the 28-29 - roadster bodies ... if you shorten the one long flat piece that runs from windshield cast bracket to the first pivot. Sounds complicated, but look at the top bows and you'll see precisely what needs to be shortened.
Reason for this is I can use a 32 top kit and have the back window area - due to the 32's different style - will lean forward a little bit as compared to the top irons on the Model A's.
A little more stylish I think and trending away from the straight up and down Model A tops lines when viewed from the side.

I think too it will go along with the home-made 32 style windshield frame.

Provided I ever get back to building the car....

 

Ford Fan - not to highjack NealinCa's post, but if your windshield frame top is at eye level after the chop it won't work out to your satisfaction.
Reason I'm sure there is I started out in my 32 roadster with stock - re-pro - seats and 2" chopped windshield.
I'm 6' and sat at the same height you do and was always trying to scrunch down in the seat not so much to get out of the wind which did go up and over, but so I had decent vision. The top bar of the windshield frame was a distraction.

If you decide the chopped top really is what you want, I strongly recommend you set the seats lower if you can, buy or build some lower ones.

Here's a pic of my friends 28.
It has the stock deluxe height windshield and the seats are lower than a stock A.
He's about 5'11" and the car fits him well.

Note too the straight up and down of the tops rear window area - as I alluded to in the above post.

Fwiw - there's some more discussion in the tech section on tops and windshield frames.

 

Long as I'm flingin up pics, here's another one of the 28.
A front view so you can see how it looks.

The car came out pretty nice in my opinion.
My friend built it following what he thought a roadster would have looked like if he'd had one in high school.
High school for him and me, the mid-late 50's.

No roadsters for us in high school, just shoebox coupes ... which wasn't really so tough....

 

On my '30 I replaced the lower windwing nuts, that are inside the posts, with rectangular pieces that extend toward the inside of the car. They are threaded to accept the windwing bolt and "catch" the windshield frame on either side next to the stanchions. This is to stop the windshield from popping in at speed. I also drilled thru the windshield frame and into these pieces. I installed button head allens thru the frame and into threaded holes in the "new" rectangular pieces. This stiffened the entire windshield, posts, etc. and put a permanent stop to the shaking, popping in and creaking!

 

Neal -- I searched all over and finally found a pair of the "Sport" windshield posts for my '29. They were designed to let your windshield fold forward (so you could sit your cheeseburger and shake on it). I simply flipped the stanchions side to side, so I could rake it back. I got my wingnuts, etc from All Ford in Campbell and they've held up well. One thing I did was use a white hard plastic washer between the wingnut and the posts (at the bottom), and the wingnut and the frame (at the top). This lets me crank down on 'em pretty good. I did have the windsheild start to fold back at speed once, but this solved the problem. I run w'stripping on the bottom of the frame only, not the sides, but I may install it in the sides. Sometimes the air whistles through the posts, and the noise is kinda annoying.

 

Dave - So you are not using the stop on the post to keep the W/S from folding back, but the plastic washer is allowing you to tighten enough that it holds in place? Am I readin you right? If so, that sounds like an easy route to go.

Options, options, I like options.

Neal

 

That's right. There's no stop to keep the posts from folding back further, and nothing to keep the bottom of the frame from moving -- but it's not going to move back when the windshield is raked like this. I actually use a angle finder to make sure my posts are both parallel, then crank down good on the wingnuts. The plastic washers seem to keep it from rattlin' loose. Longest run I've been on has been about two hours, and they don't seem to loosen up.

 

So where can I find a used and rough window frame for my 27 RPU? I have looked all over... any help is cool!

bp

 

C9,
Thanks for the insight on W/S height.I'll probably start with stock deluxe height. I can always chop it later if I want.

Concerning the bottom of the w/s frame blowing back at speed: Can't you just weld a couple of small unobtrusive tabs on to the top dash rail to act as a stop? Glue a peice of rubber or felt to the w/s side of the tabs as a cushion.

Don

 

If I understand Model A Vette correctly, what he's done sounds like a good way to go.
A pic of his install would be nice, I'm not completely sure of how the threaded piece in the swivel looks.


This pic shows what could be done far as blow-back is concerned.
The outer tapered piece is threaded and the flat washer underneath could be replaced with a piece of angle that would serve as a stop for the windshield.
You'd need to fit it so the fit to the windshield frame was very close - to stop the angle from swiveling out and down - or install a roll pin or similar to stop the swiveling.

Some one else mentioned bolts through the cowl as a stop.
A piece of suitably sculpted aluminum bolted on to the top of the cowl would look better than the stop tabs imho.
Perhaps a small piece of aluminum angle with small lip bolted under the windshield frame proper with the lip just catching the lower bar of the frame.

 

I guess my explaination wasn't as good as I thought. The windwings are attached thru brackets which thread into a pair of square nuts which are captured behind the rear face of each post. There are some sheetmetal cages that hold the nuts. I bent open the lower cages, on each side and replaced the lower nuts, on each side, with bars. The bars fit into the cages and are threaded to accept the windwing brackets. The bars go toward the center of the car, sticking out from the posts and are positive stops for the lower sides of the windshield. The inner covers of the posts were cut out for the bars to stick in. The bars accept button head allens, from the outside of the windshield, into threaded holes in the bars.
Sorry I can't post a picture as the car is 320 miles away.

 

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I guess my explaination wasn't as good as I thought.

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It was plenty good, I just didn't grasp it right away.
I get what you're saying now.
Thanks for the added information.
I'm gonna suggest it to my friend for his 28.

 

Thanks Ryan, That's the one I inherited from my Dad, Originally built in the sixties, he's was freshening it up when he got cancer. I blew it all apart and went back through it. It looked alot like C9's buddy's car, stance-wise and trim wise. I chopped, shaved, lowered, etc etc but kept the fenders in my dad's honor. The wheels are off the '38, they really need to be more big-and-little for the roadster.

 

Here is a little variation on tabs or stops to keep the bottom of the WS from blowing in. These are on my boss's 28 roadster and they are screwed into the dash rail under the WS frame...

 

They are made from a small piece of aluminum angle with a short section of clear vinyl hose stuck over as a pad.

You hardly notice them in the big picture...