hi all, so i'm working on a 1956 ford mainline 2 door wagon. i'm replacing the inner and outer rockers, floor supports and floors. i also needed to make a door post support as none are available. so after removing the rust damage, there really isn't much left. i've managed to get the post support made and the inner and outer rockers all went together fine mocking it up. in the process, i noticed that the new spacer for the #2 floor support won't fit under the support as you can see in the pics. so what can be the cause? the old one is the same hight and although it's not as stout as the new one, they have the same hight and width etc. has something shifted in my removal? i did brace the door, a to b pillar and a x brace across the b pillars. i also should say that the body pads are sqished and i have replacements. i suppose i could get it to fit using a hammer but that really sounds like a bad idea. cutting it and welding it is a option but it should fit without doing that as the old one fit. i could loosen all the body bolts and jack the body up but with the rockers and floor cut out, is there a safe way to do this without twisting the whole thing outta wack? this is a new undertaking for me with limited experience so any input would be great! thanks
Did something sag? Do your doors still fit? Does the doghouse still line up right? Removing the whole floor can take a whole lot of strength out of the body.
When I did similar work on my 53, I put the car on jack stands and measured from the garage floor to the top of the door opening front and back before starting, and wound up having to jack the roof up some. The inner and outer panels of the rocker "box" is the foundation for both the A and B pillars. Did you measure the distance between the pillars side to side prior to floor removal? I suspect the pillars have "splayed" out some. Re-install the doors and adjust the opening accordingly.
Make damn sure you put the doors on before you weld on the rockers. I have seen many cars where the doors didn't fit after new rockers. Check all the gaps on the doors, then weld.
Get everything square and level (front to back and side to side) before cutting the floors out...that way, if anything gets wild on you, you can get it back in shape by measuring/shimming/propping/jacking, etc.. Dropping plumb bobs and marking the floor is a great way to be able to re-locate critical points after they have been removed & trashed. Welding the doors/hood/etc. shut with a few tacks around the perimeter is a good idea to keep the gaps correct before hacking away at their support structure.
ok, first, thanks for all the replies. i really can use the help and yes, i am getting schooled as i go so with that in mind, i wish i had looked before i leaped. i did put a brace between the a and b pillars, i did not brace anywhere else at first. as i started cutting in very small segments and thought i'd be ok as long as i went slow. after taking out part of the rocker, i noticed that the b pillar moved. it spread out about an inch. i only noticed it because i had scratched some marks where the pillar met the floor and it had clearly moved. i attached a ratchet strap to the other side and pulled it back into position and welded a x brace between the p***enger and drivers side and crossed my fingers. after i had it mocked up the first time, i put the door in place and although it had some sag, it opened and closed fine. again, in hind site, i removed the door with the hinge. after reading something in another forum, i guess the correct way is at the door leaving the hinge on the frame so when i removed it after mockup, i left the hinge. when the door was put on for a second try, it sagged worse but after some fiddling i did get back to a sags but closes place. now that i'm going for another fit, i'll see where i'm at before i weld anything. so now as of yesterday, on a whim i tried fitting the rotten piece in with the new rockers and low and behold it fit. it is the same size as the replacement except its about 10" longer but i thought it would not matter. wrong. after i trimmed it, it fit fine. it looks good and i have it all mocked up again and will try the door tomorrow. i'm still worried about something else that may haved moved. since i didn't take any measurements before cutting it apart, is there any real way to check? i can't believe that i didn't do that but, i did! no measurements. thats what i did. so anyone have an opinion on what i should do next? sorry for the long reply. P.S. the ems stuff is very nice. it is pricy but you really get what you pay for. now, about those measurements....
Tons of measurements and if possible get a manual that shows the factory dimensions they are a great resource, not cheap but can save you like what has happen with the door opening
I'd bolt the doors on, and prop, jack, pry the wiggly body into position so the doors fit the opening PERFECTLY. If they don't fit now, they never will. Gospel. Then weld X bracing inside in every direction. Make it so solid that even if you lifted the body up in one corner the whole thing would stay firm. Check the door fit again. Make any corrections to your bracing if needed. Then I'd start by replacing the outer rockers, then inner, then cross floor mounts, last the tin floor. You are making the stuff that shows fit the best, and working your way into the stuff that can be manipulated for fit later. Nobody cares if the floorboard has a bend in it as long as the door fits the opening nicely. Everybody can see door gaps, but nobody can see what's under your carpet.
Thanks for starting this thread. One of these years I’ll be doing surgery on my ‘56 Meteor and the tips will come in handy.
What I would do next- so you can clear the driveshaft tunnel, mark a point on the B pillar down from the striker bolt the same on each side, and then on the A pillar down from the lower hinge opening on each side. Measure diagonally from pillar A to B on each side and compare. Should be within 1/8". EMS does have nice stuff. I was one of the first to use their lower quarter panels for the 52-54.
Here’s my process for this type or repair. Get the car level. Check gaps. I will jack the car up and place stands under the suspension. I never fit and weld structure with stands on the frame. I prefer the car sitting on its suspension naturally. I like to build with the body bushings it’s gonna use when complete. Measurements are nice but the doors have to fit If door hinges need built, I repair those before welding I never worry about moving the body around to fit things. That’s part of the deal. But don’t force it unless it’s needed. Ive had to use a porta-power to get things to line up many times. I fit as much as I can with the doors on. I remove the striker so I know it’s not affecting the fit. Get the car fitting with the gaps it needs then weld.
thanks for the replies. i did get the manual and it really has a pretty good section on the process and was helpful. no, i did not cut the other side at all and after about 2 hours of measuring and marking, i some how have the thing dang near perfect. still need to trim the floor pans on the rocker side but otherwise, i'm moving along and will hang the door in the next day or so. i will continue to post as i go. i have enclosed a couple shots of todays mockup. if anything looks off, please let me know. alchemy, i was planning on that same order so thanks for answering my next question as to if it was correct. also, should i cut the tunnel to match the new pans in a exact **** weld? my current plan is to have about 1 inch to over lay the new pan on the tunnel, punch holes in the pan and spot weld then go back and tack,tack,tack along the seams. i'll seal the seams with seam sealer either way. any info on that subject would be great. thanks
Several opinions on seam sealer. Some guys like the 2 part seam sealers. Can get pricey. I’ve seen panel bond type products used. Whatever you use, I recommend applying over a DTM primer such as epoxy.
Personally I don't rely on sealer. I like to weld solid. I'd not do any overlaps on the pans where you are able, but if talent is lacking then go ahead. Smaller is better, less area for the water to sit. And it will get in there. I'd rather flood the seams with epoxy primer like Anthony mentions, so the primer is in the overlap before the water gets in. When welding up your floorboards, there's no need to do those small line of dot welds like a lot of guys do on outer sheetmetal. All the curves in the floor panels, and adjacent bends, should prevent warping. Tack the part into position every six or eight inches, then weld with inch or two p***es, skipping around here and there, until you are whole.
The new pictures look great, but do the doors fit right? If the door doesn't fit right, how pretty it looks doesn't matter. Tacked and measured stuff still moves around. I don't see that the rockers are welded into place yet, and it doesn't look like the bottom of the front post has been welded yet either, without both ends welded secure, the door posts can still move, resulting in a drooping door. I wouldn't be fitting the floor pan until the rockers are welded into place and the door works. You should also remove the striker bolt, you want the door to swing freely into place, the striker can pull the door up or down and give you a false feeling the door is correct. 1) Fit the doors. 2) Attach the rockers (and the front door post). Check the door fit, weld the rockers in place. 3) Attach any floor bracing that is under the floor pan. Make sure the door fits. Welding the bracing in. 4) Build the body to frame mounts. Check the door fit to be sure the body mounts didn't mess up the door fit. 5) Fit the front floor pan in. If you plan on having a lap joint at the tunnel, I would keep the overlap to a 1/2", When you weld the pan in, weld the new pan on top of the old tunnel. If there are any braces that are under the floor pan, you want to drill holes and plug weld the pan to the braces, when its time to weld. When the pan has all the holes needed drilled and the pan fits without much pressure, start welding with a couple plug welds onto the floor bracing first. Then ad the plug welds onto the tunnel, then a few tack welds at the front of the floor pan to the firewall/toe board. then a few tack welds at the rear (if there is a piece there to weld to), and finally a few tacks along the door. After the pan has been tacked into place, do the finish weld in about the same process. 6) If there is a rear floor pan to weld in, it should be fit, with the same process as the front pan was done. 7) With everything welded into place, the door should open and close very nicely. Now you can reinstall the striker post and adjust it. 8) Repeat the process on the other side. When the floors are done do the seal sealing. Gene
hey guys, thanks for all the help and sorry i haven't posted but, haven't done much on the rig until today. after getting everything mocked up and in place, i hung the door. well, looking at the pics kinda explains my problem. i believe the door adjustments are maxed out but it still sags. so i was thinking of putting a few spacers behind the bottom hinge but don't know if thats the correct solution. i should back up and say when i removed the door, it closed fine. i made the mistake of removing it with the hinge and having trial fit it before, decided to take the door off and leave the hinge which now has me without a original position. i've checked my measurements and the door opening has not moved as a result of removing the floor and rockers and i have it braced well. so please, take a look and let me know what ya'll think. oh yeah, i should mention, the door clears the rockers. i also included pics of the way the hinge position looks from the back side of the adjustments
Are you sure the bottom of the hinge door post has not spread, or moved forward, allowing the door to drop. If the bottom of the hinge post was pulled rearward it would raise the door. If you do this and the gap is still good at the latch side of the door, that's your fix.
The door has an inch of sag at the back, and it still clears the rocker? So your rocker is an inch too low at the back? Something is way out of wack. You need to reexamine the opening and see if there is some spread that you didn't catch. My guess, like BJR, is the front post slid forward at the bottom. If you have the strength, and a bunch of wood wedges or other type of shims, you could remove/unbolt the bottom hinge and wedge the door up so the top of it fits the body. Make sure the B pillar still has a good gap to the door now. If it does, you more than likely let the front pillar slip forward. Cause just removing some hinges doesn't usually make them an inch out of alignment.
I suspect the bottom of your front door post needs to be moved about aa 1/2" towards the rear of the vehicle at the bottom welded joint (or about 1/2 of whatever the gap between the roof and the top of the door, at the door's rear edge. Do not move it too much and then ***ume it is correct and weld it solid again). I suspect you have a lot of cutting, moving, and welding to get it right now. 3-4 tack welds should hold things good enough to mount the door to check the fit. Especially if it fit correctly before you did anything. Now you understand why I check the door fit as often as I do through the process. Gene
When I replaced the floor and rocker in the Studebaker I had door misalignment because the A pillar support was gone (thankfully the Cl***ic Enterprise folks make a repair piece for the bottom of the A pillar as well as the A pillar body support etc) and my solution was to "fabri-cobble" a strap to pull the A pillar back and bring the door in alignment, Just a piece of strap steel with a bolt in the lower end that I could pull the A pillar back with. Good luck Note.....be sure to pull it a little extra...although it turned out OK I should have pulled it back just a little more....I hate admitting that. I ran out of hinge adjustment and it just came to me that was what I should have done.
thanks for all the info folks. i was afraid that it had moved. i felt sure that it couldn't move because of the brace i had welded in between the a and b pillars but, i guess it must have shifted.
well after a few hours of checking measurements, looks like it did slip. its out 1/4. i'm gonna need to figure out a way pull it back in shape and still check door fit. more to come!
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