I developed a line of SCCA approved bolt in roll bars for Autopower. Granted, these were designed for sports cars, not hot rods. Quite frankly, poorly designed roll bars are worse then no roll bars. I designed a roll bar for my Zipper (avatar) and after it was built, removed it as it probably would have have hurt me more than it would have saved me. TROG rules will require purpose built cars.....nothing wrong with that:
I have run my 1928 steel v8 A Roadster at Pendine for the last three years. From this year the VHRA have announced that a roll bar/cage needs to be fitted. It’s a tough one to call for sure. The whole event has always had that nostalgic feeling that we all live for but the thought of period hot rods suddenly ‘sprouting’ safety cages may kinda ruin the whole feel/look of the event from now on. I guess, like TROG all good things ‘get away with it until the inevitable happens’ and it comes to an abrupt end. Last year in Wales under the hot sun the sand felt very strange to run on and very loose under power and at high speed. At least two v8 cars spun out at the top end one near enough going through the speed timing traps backwards. As the beach was so unpredictable the officials called an end to the races early - it was the correct and a sensible move to make. So I guess it all comes down to what do you want to see: a slow moving car show or a flat out beach race, if it’s the latter, well it’s simple - safety has to come first (and full face helmets and cages will spoil all the photos you take!) For the record I ran 106 mph on the sands in a open Roadster. I would be interested to know what the top speeds at the TROG races have been to cause these rule changes? Sent from my iPhone using H.A.M.B.
Then it's no longer vintage racing, might as well drop the whole thing and go racing for real. IMO a non-affiliated renegade event is starting to look good again. Meet at El Mirage, run what ya brung. No promoters, no advertisers, no officials. Match races, no timing slips, no points, no money, no trophys. I suspect that's pretty much how it started to begin with.
There is an "old saying" in racing about fire suits that you don't dress for the race, you dress for the crash. The same could be said about roll bars. Racing is all "fun and games" until someone get seriously hurt. A properly built roll bar/cage makes a lot of the cars look "dumb". But what is really dumb is having your best friend tell your wife how you died "doing what you loved".
Those of us who drove hot rods and raced in the old days lived like there was no tomorrow and we survived. Now that some of us have passed our "best if used by date" the nanny state doesn't want us to take any chances. I say the hell with it. My cars are period safe and I drive like I want and am willing to take a chance of dying if that's the price I have to pay to enjoy life. If I die doing what I love to do its a hell of a lot better than dying a lingering death in an old age home.
I have been talking safety but I don't think this cars need full modern cages or full face helmets. Well build roll bars (above the hight of the drivers head) Seat belts shoulder harness would (WW II Aircraft ued the) be a good Idea as would a Firesuit. As for ruining photos put a motorcycle jacket on over the firesuit. Bell still makes the 500 helmet (DOT) that came out in th 1950's they also make the shields
Many of the examples shown in this thread would be terrible. Unless the diagonal braces extend to the top bar, if the car rolls at speed the bar is going to dig into the sand and bend like a wet noodle. Or the bar may start cutting into the sand shoving it into the driver's face, burying him. I think a full cage is pretty much going to be a necessity, something like used on a sand rail. Once you start down this path you really need to go all the way, part way is as bad or worse than none at all.
No, I don't want to argue, sorry for coming off that way. I realize the diagonal braces keep the bar from folding, but if they don't extend to the top of the bar, if they attach part way up, the part of the bar above them will fold. We're not talking about a heavy wet track, we're talking about sand. And the photo you posted shows a full cage, not a roll bar. Do you have experience on the sand? The point is, if you're going to go down this path, you probably need to put a cage in it, not just a bar, and not an unbraced bar. Again, look at the cages used on sand rails, that's a far cry from some of what's been posted here, and I don't see how that's gonna work for a vintage racing type event.
Taken from the TROG site, as were the above pictures. “A VINTAGE STYLE ROUND OR SQUARE ROLL BAR IS NEEDED. NO CAGES, JUST LIKE THE ORIGINALS. EMAIL US IF YOU HAVE QUESTIONS!” I think guys are getting hung up on the roll bar deal , Its their event and racers need to abide by “their “ rules. Sure there are many different style of better roll bars . We can offer suggestions only, we can not make the Oilers rules.
Thank you[emoji106] The course on the sands at Pendine is 1/2 mile run up into a flying 1/8 timing trap and approx 1/4 mile shut down. I believe the beach in Wales is 7 miles long and that’s why in the 1920-30s many land speed records were set there. It’s are own El Mirage, Muroc and Bonneville all rolled into one[emoji469] Sent from my iPhone using H.A.M.B.
Well unless things have changed a lot TROG is 1/8 mile standing start in pretty soft sand. I doubt if the trap speeds are very high.
I’m confused Has any rod/car ever flipped over at any of these races ? I watched that guy stick his bike/head in the sand. It should be obvious to anyone who has ever ridden a motorcycle, that getting sideways and going down IS inevitable....on sand and/or wet soft surfaces...especially when racing antiques ! I listened to the organizer of this race tell how he had told the guy, who dumped the bike, to not continue to go all out like he was doing at every opportunity. Only takes one to ruin something for all, it has been said. Since it was a bike rider whose flip started this roll bar, etc safety issue, are bikes still going to be allow to race ? And if so, how will roll bar rules affect them ? An observation: These rods, for the most part, are antique works of art. Does anyone really think that an amature roll bar will suffice for safety on sand ? No 5 point harness requirement ? Same for seat anchoring ?? Safety “bandaid” or beginning of the end for a great American pastime ?
Just an observation from following all the TROG events & builds here on the HAMB. This started out as a fun event, build a car from "Left Overs" and run it down the sand. Did anyone spend money building a "Race Motor"? I always looked it as a "Reenactment" not an out & out race. This was a dream Mel had, very few people have the ability to turn dreams into reality, and provide a good time for everyone. Bob
Seemed like at Santa Barbara it was more of an out in out race. SBC's, T5's,, alternators , late model overhead valve motors after 1953, which was not allowed as stated on their website. Some of the cars probably could of used a roll bar. I had a friend who built his car following all the rules on there website and could not compete. Don't get me wrong! It was still a fun event. But they should not have had a certain criteria on their website. Then you get there it's different. Some people built their cars following that criteria. Like I said I still had fun.
I looked at is a sort of run what you brung fun event more than competition. Face it, none of us are going very fast with a flathead. (But hot rodders will always try to go faster ) I am honestly having a hard time with the role bar requirement. One of the goals of building my car was to run in vintage events like TROG and the hill climb but 90% of the time it will be a street car. I really don’t want to add a roll bar to the car so I am probably out for the NJ event. (Not sure I will have the car ready anyway.) Having said that I respect the Oiler’s decision and may make a purpose built car for a future event. Especially if they ever decide to run at Daytona. Thanks, —louis
From being around the guys at Trog at Pismo beach "reenactment was the furthest thing from their minds. This isn't a bunch of guys out in a park pretending to be 40's hot rodders outside of having the cars look authentic and having period correct clothes for many and that quite often meant white coveralls. A lot of the engines were full on race motors with serious money in them. Figure 5000 buck engine in a 200 dollar car and you pretty well nailed a lot of them. Not that there weren't some thrown together jalopies with very basic engines there too but the cars got matched up against pretty equal cars so there was no one getting their doors blown off because of who they lined up against.
Got an email from Corey the other day about it. I'm not gonna overthink it. I pray the sand is better this October because the sand was absolutely terrible last year. No traction and it was a washboard the whole way. Fingers crossed.
I grew up doing an endurance run where all the cars and everything on the cars was supposed to be pre '28 with no factory bodies with the exception of radiator, cowl, hood. The roughly 200 mile course would often cover dirt paths, creeks, and generous inclines and declines. I can recall there being close to 100 cars a couple years but as they got more particular about enforcing the rules and other events sprung up the numbers dropped to fewer than 20. Many cars that had been built and run when the event was new were no longer acceptable due to their original build. Recently the "rules" have been relaxed and the numbers have started to return. From reading the posts here I can sense a drop in the numbers as people are less than excited about modifying pre war cars. Near me at the Homestead Miami speedway they open pit road about once a month for people to drag race, it is only a 1/8 mile but still cool. Their "rules" are as follows Seat belts: All vehicles must have a minimum of OEM type lap belt system, securely mounted to frame or floor of vehicle Helmet: Required for convertibles, sunroofs, t-tops or open body cars; helmet must be Snell 2000 or newer (label inside of helmet is proof of certification) Tires: Must have DOT tires, technical inspector must qualify tires (no tire defects, worn out tread, damaged tires, plugs, etc.) Wheels: Hubcaps will be removed for inspectors who will check for loose or missing lug nuts and general condition of rims Batteries: Must be secured per OEM or minimum of two 3/8" diameter bolts (no bungee cords, straps, string, etc.); if located in trunk must have cut off switch installed unless factory installed Exhaust: All cars must have mufflers and not be over max decibel reading determined & approved by technical inspector Nitrous: Bottles must be stamped to meet DOT (1,800 lb. standard); must be securely mounted (no bungee cords, straps This is a timed event and all out drag race with people running everything from trucks to corvettes. Even a few that are trailered in.
Well, I suppose it had to get to this point. A lot of people have given all so that the rest of us can stay safe. If TROG requires a Roll Bar so be it. Tony Nancy made it look cool. Just follow his lead, alls well. Besides you can't smile without a face or if your missing your head altogether.......... I'm in! - Tim
Tall roll bars and or cages would make for safety, but it will change the visual, just like today's Nostalgia Drags, far removed from the concept in the 80's.
I think this is part of the evolution of the event. At first they had slow cars and weeded them out to show more race/fast cars. Well, once you get faster cars, stuff breaks and problems happen. It's true for any type of racing.
Where can I get a " period correct " year/model brunette like the one in the last pic to dress up the inside of my roadster? Reminds me of the George Jones song, " Hotter Than a Two Dollar Pistol ".
That’s what I was told by The Race committee. Only open cars need roll bars . Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
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