History Roll Bars before 1952

there's a thread for almost everything automotive here, ever radiator overflow cans, but

after doing a search and reading threads far & wide, i still think we need one more.

could those in the know post some photos of roll bars from the jalopy/ pre NASCAR era?

i'm not specifically interested in the rule book compliant bars & cages, but what did the

blacksmiths come up with to protect the drivers from a let's get it done standpoint.

thanks; i know this will round out all of the specialty equipment threads on the Forum.

happy to jump in and do my part whenever i can.

sid

 

whew - those people had courage.

that's some "dick kraft" engineering through & through on those rides.

thanks for showing them.

sid

 

There was some real sketchy stuff as far as roll bars back then.

 

WOW! He used "roll bars" and "1952" in the same sentence.
I'm guessing here, as I wasn't born until '57, but there probably wasn't ANY rules about rollover protection, much less standards of construction.

Just my opine.....Roger

 

that's pretty much what i expressed in the first post, but i can understand why you might be confused by my query.

 

A thread on vintage roll bars I started a few years ago-
https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/vintage-period-correct-roll-bar-photo-thread.1283266/

 

Torque tube roll in a 33 Ford survivor stock car.

 

It doesn’t look like my Grandpa was real worried about it, as a three A driver back in the late 20’s :

 

My buddy Bob an I traded a go-cart we found in a trash pile n fixed, back in 1959,for a old used up,ragged out, stockcar left at W T Price Crain Co..
It was left behind by someone who worked there. W T's son Brian { same age as Bob n I/ teens}made the trade with us. So we pushed it a few blocks ,put it in Bobs back yard to work on it.
We get it running again ,was the flathead 6,but had no headers at all> just open out the side of block { blup blup boom n fire }we thought was very cool
The racing seat was old Army aircraft or at lest most of one,with a chest belt. ***Roll Bar was sq,not bent ,design had one cross tube n 2 legs<that's all,and welding looked like crunchy Peter Pan.
Bob's Mom had a Desoto,and we'd borrow the battery out of it,to run the flathead 6 racecar engine,and joy ride around the block. Mom;; "Hay boys ! ,my car will not start,can you see if you can fix it?,,Sure Mom right away !! "
We never did get up the balls to take it to the local race track.
It looked about like this pic,but lots more rust;

 

Back in the 50's maybe into the 60's the Milwaukee area modified's looked like your pic, seem to remember V-8 engines. Now there is a vintage modified group here in southeast Wi. that run exhibition races as a fill in at several tracks, the guys are having a ton of

Me, sitting on Dads lap, 1948, Grandmother and friends of my Dad by wicarnut posted Jan 20, 2014 at 5:27 PM

fun and some of the old cars are pretty scary to say the least. I look at my Dad's midget I'm restoring, he built after WW2 and the car was raced thru 1974 with several updates, I drove it 70-74, fortunately I never hurt myself in it. pics attached. No seat belts or roll bars in 48 (brave men) I raced thru 91 ending in winged Sprint cars, all good stuff, fast cars, but did make some crash house visits with the Midget program. Memories Priceless !

 

excellent; just what i tried to find!

gotta work on my search-foo.

thanks so much for the link,

sid

 

no physician can put a cast on happiness!

 

i like ol' #28.

Q: is it okay if i steal this picture to start another thread regarding engine setback & chassis armor?

thanks [either way]

s.e.

 

I've seen a number of early rollbars that were threaded plumbing pipe with plumbing 90's and 45's! I'm sure they were better than just having your helmet hit the track, but sure not like what we have today.

 

Bonus points if your dad was a plumber, you could probably build your roll bar for free.

 

GULP!

 

At our local track (I sure miss it) back before about 1960, roll bars were optional, unless the car was a convertible. The convertible required a "roll bar behind the drivers head", no farther instructions or requirement information.
I've seen pictures of some of the wrecked cars back into the early 50 that did indeed at least have a roll bar. Some had a full roll cage, and the driver was probably pretty happy that was there, based the looks of the mangled cars.
I was born in 1956, my mom told me that my dad and his buddies build a race car. On the 1st night out, he rolled it end over end several times. She said it took all their money to rebuild the car again. He only raced one season. I would assume that with the car surviving a crash that included "several end over end" flips, there must have been some sort of roll cage, but I have no idea how accurate the whole story really was. Her version was the only one I ever heard. I know my dad's buddy owned several dirt track cars over the years, his cars that I remember seeing were well built, with full cages.
I remember being at a race where one of dad's buddy's cars was racing at a different track. The car got involved in a multi car crash and went into the infield where it hit one of the light poles sideways, at speed! The old coupe was nearly bent into a U, front bumper nearly touching the rear bumper. The driver had some serious injuries, but survived. Some time after the crash I was at the race car garage when that driver walked in, I remember the driver thanking dad's buddy for building such a great, safe car. That had to be in the early 60s they quit racing the coupes in 1966 in our area.

 

those are great stories & memories to have. thanks for sharing them.

sid

 

Look up drivers like Will Cagel and Pete Corey. Especially the coupes that Cagle ran and Corey's '53 Studebaker.

I took some pictures of Cagle in his car before a race in 1985. They still let him run his Sam Browne style seat belt.

 

excellent; thanks for the heads up.
from initial searches, both fellows have plenty of interweb presence.

will investigate more later.

s.e.

 

A large majority of rollbars were also single sided to just protect the driver in cars. But just as many were full width whether there was a co-driver, or passenger. By the 1960's Lakewood was selling single sided rollbars with specific floor patterns to bolt into a large variety of cars, so guys didn't need a welder or bender to make theirs up. I built my Lakewwood copy to the specs of the Lakewood bars, but without interchangeable bases as Lakewood did to make theirs universal.

 

a perfect example of being trapped by my own thinking. never gave a thought that a roll bar could be anything other than full interior width. and i like the shape of that one, too.

thanks for the link; i'll snoop through the thread later [bicycle is calling my name, now].

sid

 

There used to be (haven't looked for a few years) several dirt tracks that have a wide range of historic photos posted on their track web sites. That could supply you with actual historic picture viewing for hours, many even time dated so you can see the progression of the cars at a specific track year by year.
Do an internet search for "vintage dirt track racing pictures" or maybe qualify a year or tow in your search, like "vintage dirt track racing pictures from 1965"

I also know there are a lot of tracks (like Freeport Raceway in IL, there was a long running Freeport Raceway in NY as well) that have pictures of cars that have raced at specific tracks on FB, but you may have to join those sites to view the pictures.

 

I don't know what year these pics were taken, but there's not many pics of track roadsters with roll bars. Track roadsters were all over by mid 50s. I suspect only later ones had roll bars, depending on local track rules. The CRA rules are from 55.

 

gene; you're right about facebook and that's a road i shall not travel. but i Do appreciate the search suggestions; thanks.

 

Gofannon,

i can only hope you never had to do laps in ol' #5. talk about "letting it all hang out" - jeeze!

hope it's okay to print those rules. that's going to ba a valuable checklist very shortly [starting a new model next rainy day].

i appreciate you guys sticking with me; it's going to be quite a ride!

sid

 

With sprint cars, many drivers were killed or maimed due to having no roll bar or cage.

Until the respected Kenny Weld installed one around 1965. From there the practice caught on.

 

i think that's a driving (!) reason why roadster racing was quashed early on.