Roll Cage what size dia. and thickness?

1 3/4 OD .125 wall

 

As you are concerned with side impact and the other cars bumper, etc. how about building a cage structure that only comes up to the belt line of your car. A pair of hoops at the firewall and "A" post, tied together and a three sided cage from the "B" post back to the rear seat (if therre is one). You couls also add a crash bar to the inside of the doors.
The additional safety from side impact would be as good or better than any modern car, and there will be nothing up high to bang your brain bucket on.

 

FYI a lot of insurance companies will refuse to insure you once you install a roll cage in a car. Once it has a roll cage, they consider it a race car and not a street car.

That sucks, but that's how the insurance companies look at it.

 

I didn't know that.

 

To what degree? just a hoop I think would be fine as alot on the lil convertibles come stock with a built in kinda roll bar

 

That always comes up in these thread but please document the statement.

 

Hmmm... probably depends on the insurance company. I could see that side of it for sure. I don't think Grundy is in that frame of mind. There is a Grundy rep on here. Maybe she will comment.

 

From the Hagerty website:

We do not offer an insurance product for the following types of vehicles:

• Inexpensive home-built kits that do not replicate a classic vehicle
• Replicas of the 1963-67 Shelby Cobra Roadster
• Any vehicles used for camping, off-road or utility-type driving
• Pro-street vehicles modified exclusively with racing features such as roll cages, wheelie caster, nitrous systems, parachutes, etc. (Consideration may be given to show-use only vehicles)
• Regular-use vehicles driven on a daily basis
• Vehicles used primarily for commercial use
• No motorcycles with performance modifications
• Any vehicle modified with a nitrous system. Vehicles that run on nitro-methane or blown alcohol systems are ineligible
• Dune Buggies

Not sure where their definition starts, or ends, but I bet this is what they say. Wait 'til Zenor finds out his Dune Buggie isn't covered!

 

They say Pro Street, not traditional Model A with a hoop!

 

Danger of a cage or bar on the street. Single biggest concern is proximity of tubing to your head. In a race car, you wear a helmet and restraints. Who here is doing that on the street? Even if you pad the bars, that is not enough protection to a melon without a bucket. Sorry, but it's true. The probabilities may be low, but it is still there.
Do I plan a cage in my street car? yes. Will I go out of my way to put it as far away from my melon as I can? YES.

To iron pipe and exhaust tubing? Get real. The sanctioning bodies have rules based on experience. Few of them have done actual testing to see what is best, but NHRA and NACSAR are the most qualified, aside from those freaks in the 280 mph F1 cars. I'll follow the book on NHRA until I build a road purpose car, then I will look to NASCAR and the sactioning bodies for the many road racing organizations. I doubt I will ever use a mild steel cage, primarily due to weight, but also because I have first hand experience with the aftermath of a crash and what I could see on a chromemoly chassis. I have a personal preference to chromemoly.

 

Hmmm... I would be curious to see what the limits are to the above statement from Hagerty. Technically mine wouldn't pass any racing standards, however it does resemble a full cage to some extent.

Damn. If I have to cut mine out I'm not going to be happy.

 

I will take the chance of bumping my head over an F-250 Bumper ON my head!

 

Good point. Plus, he's not putting on a wheelie caster.

 

Thats easy. If it passes NO sanctioning body it can't be a racecar!

Plus, look at how many Jeeps, Pickups, Rodeos etc came FROM THE FACTORIES with roll bars over the years. Thats why I call BS on the blanket statement about insurance companies not covering them. Even Haggerty above gets pretty specific as proof.

 

I just called Grundy and talked to the rep. She said that if the car is stated as being "for show only" and is not for race purposes then there should be no problems with coverage. She said they get concerned when they see a structure like that in a car, but if it's not there to meet any type of racing regulations then it's fine.

I backed it up with the fact that I KNOW it wouldn't meet any regulations and I'm sure I would have no problem with getting a statement from an SCTA or NHRA inspector saying so.

Basically it came down to what you state the car's purpose is, that's what they are going to cover you for. And they don't cover race cars, so if you say it's a race car and it meets regulations for racing standards it's NOT going to be covered.

I think it's a good point that was brought up.

 

Whenever I try to get a quote from a collector car insurance place, the first thing they ask is, "Does it have a cage?". When I ask them, "Why, does it matter if it has a cage or not?", they tell me, "We won't insure anything if it has a cage in it." I've heard that from about three different collector car insurance places.

So I guess, keep in mind that some insurance companies just won't insure a collector car if it has a cage in it. A roll bar might be different, but for most racing organizations, a roll bar is sort of a decoration and you need a full cage for them to approve it as a safety item.

Maybe if you try to insure it, call it a "Roll bar" and make sure you don't call it a "cage".

 

Having been in one roll over I'd take my chances with getting banged on a roll bar or padded roll bar. I don't think an insurance co would kick about a door sill high cage under the sheetmetal and maybe under the upholstery.

As far as getting the steel tubing, most cities that have a base of circle track or drag racers have at least one steel yard that sells the correct tubing for roll bars. It might be easier to ask the local guys who build race cars where to buy it. You might even find someone who will bend up a roll bar the way you want it that way.

 

Just came across this. Our underwriters say that "We will do a pro street car with a roll cage, as long as it is not strictly used for racing." Hope that clears things up!

Becky
Grundy Worldwide

 

Hmmm, may be time to switch to Grundy. Thanks for the info.

 

Awesome! Thanks Becky!! That clears up everything for me for sure! I appreciate the input!

Grundy will be getting my business! You can count on it!

 

Lots of different answers, littlewing got it close - a hoop is 1 3/4 X .132 wall, mild steel. There is no spec for a chromemolly hoop. A roll cage (structurally, part of a chassis as opposed to having a frame with a hoop) is 1 5/8 X .132 mild steel (of which DOM is a high quality form) or .083 chrome moly.
What is the difference between a roll bar and a cage? A roll bar is added to a frame; a cage is the part of a chassis that surrounds the driver. There is a difference between a frame and a chassis, in brief it is the difference between the early gassers (they had a frame) and the next step to the FX-cum-funny cars, the Stone-Woods & Cook Mustang and the Taska Ford Mustangs are a good example.
Everybody is right about protecting your noggin should something happen, those pipes are not forgiving.
And the reason that i think insurance cos. have heart burn about insuring a 'steet machine' isn't the car as much as the type of person that wants to drive an 1100hp blown camaro, tubbed, wheelie bars and parachute down thru a crowd lining the sidewalks and yelling 'lite 'em up' That scares the shit out of me too and i don't blame the insurance cos.

 

I have heard a lot of good advice on this issue.....Thanks! I am putting together a glass 41 willys to be set up and used as a daily driver, cross country cruiser, rain, shine, you get the drift. A major concern of mine also is safety in the event of a side-impact collision, or a rollover. I do not trust that fiberglass door or roof to hold up. I like the idea of the beltline-down cage, and maybe add a hoop as far back in the cab as I can put it....What I would add to what has been posted is a swing out bar that would move with the door and pin in place to the A pillar cage tube when the door was closed..(with suicide doors). This tube could not be mounted solid to the door, of course, since the tube could not act as the hidden door hinges do, but it would have to be safer than that plastic door skin, and could double as an arm rest.
my .02
Jeff