overly cautious?? I use rotella AND additive on new break in's. I break in the engines on a run stand. I have never has a flat tappet cam go bad with this combination in breaking in a motor. After the enginme is broke in, I drain the oil, replace the filter and run rotella straight. It has my vote.
Read about using diesel oils in gas engines on this web site www.zddplus.com They do not recommend it and give the reasons why. They are an Alliance Vendor here and have a solution for reduced zddp in current over the counter oils.
"Overly cautious??" Everyone is free to chose the oil they want? The fact is all flat tappet cam engines require zinc. All oil sold for highway use has greatly reduced levels of zinc(per EPA regs.). I have spent many many hours researching oil after loosing a motor(whiped out 14 lobes on the cam)and will not take a chance by using a oil with reduced zinc levels. I personally can't afford to take that chance. Edit: Unless you use synthetic oil all flat tappet cam engines require zinc or ZPPD.
Not being a smart *** but the quoted post leads to the question: Why not simply just use synthetic oil? I use Mobil One in my (3) flat tappet SBC 350's... no problems.
I use Rotella 10w-30 to break a flat tap engine in . Then I tell the customer to us a couple different brand BUT to be safe , spend the $10 and buy a bottle of Zinc and use their favorite brand of oil they like the best . Personally there is a Mobile to still use , Valvoline racing but read they are even very lower than the zinc contents should be , NOT all diesel oil has the zinc you need but will work if you need a quart real bad . There are some other good ones out there but do your homework very good first before you start dumping in an oils that doesn't have the zinc you need . Don't try looking on the back of the bottles either because they won't tell you . Now after I use Rotella to break an engine in I use Ams oil with zinc . They do make an oil especially for flat-tap engines . Yes it's $10 a quart but is damn high quality oil and it won't let you down . I think I read someplace there is also a royal Purple that was suppose to have the zinc but maybe not enough . Just do your homework or just go and buy a bottle of ZDDP at your local Advanced Auto . With a bottle of ZDDP added to your oil change you are cover with what you need to have with no questions asked ! There are some other brands out on the market now with ZDDP and is a little cheaper but just do your homework and make sure of what you are using in your oil will take care of that flat tap cam ! Also DON'T use a cheap oil filter ! If you spend that much money on an engine and high end oil use a good oils filter as well ! I use either K&M or WIX Racing oil filter . FRAM and those others at the parts store are dog **** and aren't worth sticking on your lawn mower ! If you spend less than $7 for an oil filter , then just sit that oil filter on a fence post and use it for target practice ! That's all they are good for . Just my opinion ! Retro Jim
TWO words..brad penn.has enough zinc for old engines and the guy who sells it is an alliance member on the hamb.
Like I said every is free to choose to run any oil they want and some people are pure old school an don't want to run synthetic. A lot of the problem is that the oil companies did not inform the public that they were taking the zinc out of the oil and denied it until the cam companies started getting calls about a lot of flat tappet cam failures and did some research. The oil companies couldn't dispute the research and came forward admitting they had removed zinc. I also don't have any first hand experience but have been told it is not a good idea to switch an older motor over to synthetic. The reason I was told is that it is simular to the reason you don't want to run detergent oil in an older motor. It can cause deposits to break loose clogging oil p***ages and galleys.
Look at the round starburst symbol on the back of Rotella or Del vac can if it says CI 4 it has lots of zinc If it says CJ 4 it is for a converter equipped diesel and has a lot less zinc. I think you can only buy the CI in bulk or if someone has old stock left over.
used to use rotella, heard about the zinc reduction before it came so i went out and hoarded up all the old label high zinc rotella i could find. Bought 22 gallons, but that was 4 years ago, and its nearly gone, so I've switched to Brad Penn. It's green. kinda hard to find.
I've looked into this myself. I usually use the cheapest stuff I can get my hands on which tends to be Fleet Farm's Resolute brand oil (which is made by Citgo). After reading a bunch of horror stories about not enough zinc I decided it was time to do a little research and find out if my el-cheapo brand of choice had sufficient enough zinc. I looked into Rotella, it no longer has the same amount of zinc it once had. I then emailed Citgo about the Resolute brand of motor oil. This was their reply: So now I just run the el-cheapo farm rated diesel oil. At 13 bucks for two gallons it seems to me to be a good deal. No expensive additives and no waiting for UPS to deliver oil so I can do an oil change.
The change in formulation was common knowledge, the specs came out, everyone knew that the zinc was getting reduced. The oil companies did not try and hide this. You make it sound as if they did. It took some detective work to determine that the lack of zinc was a factor in the cam failures.
Torco has the zinc you need and its formulated in all their oil both petroleum based or fully synthetic. Look them up a torcousa.com.
i have been using rotella t 15/40 in all my every day drivers [flat tappet ] for years ,exceeds all gas engine specs never any issues as a matter of fact my 1983 0ne ton 4x4[plow truck] went more than 230,000 miles before a basic freshin up was needed,and now i have 340,000 on it still runs strong i highly recomened it
The information I posted was obtained from my machine shop 4-5 years ago and is what he said he was told to him when he called the cam companies about flat tappet cam failures that he was having(second hand info.,yes)(open for dispute,yes). If this information is common knowldge why are there so many people in the hobby let alone not that don't know about the change.After reading lots of information on this subject this is the first time I heard it was common knowledge.Wish I had that information. It would have save my engine. I was working at auto parts store at the time of the change and we never recieved any notification of any formulation change.The first public(no industry specific) published information that I know of was HOT ROD magazine a couple years ago. Who was it common knowledge to?When was it made public? Seems like a lot of people still don't know.
"Ticker" from the 67-72chevytrucks.com site has researched the topic of flat tappet cam compatible oils and created a list. This list continues to be updated and is an excellent reference, it can be found here: http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/showthread.php?t=381780 Information has also been cut and pasted below: Note that Rotella Oil doesn't make the list. This topic is definately one where "I have always used "insert brand here" and never had any problems" doesn't apply. Companies change formulations, often based on government regulations. That's what happened with ZDDP. Stay informed about the "current" formulation. As stated below: Any oil marked API SM and/or ILSAC GF-4/CJ-4 compliance in grades SAE 0W-20, SAE 5W-20, SAE 0W-30, SAE 5W-30 and SAE 10W-30 cannot have sufficient ZDDP. OK, here is "Tickers" data: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Updated: 11.01.18 I'm cross-posting a summary of an article I wrote for another site as I thought it would be useful here. This post contains links to break-in oils/additives as well as flat-tappet compatible oils. I moved stuff so the oil list is first, then break-in oils/additives, then technical background. For those that don't like reading all this stuff, these are the key points: Use any oil from the list. * Change it every 3,000 miles for mineral, 5,000 miles for synthetic. * Do not use ZDDP additives on a regular basis (they contain well over 2500 ppm ZDDP and cause combustion chamber deposits.) * Racing oils, diesel oils, etc. aren't good choices for a street, gasoline engine. Oil List Amsoil Synthetic Premium Protection Grades: 10W40 (AMO), 20W50 (ARO), 5W20 (HDD), 20W-50 (TRO) Claim: "It is ideal for high-mileage vehicles, vehicles with flat-tappet cams and high-stress vehicles subject to hot temperatures, heavy hauling, trailer pulling or off-road use." Brad Penn Grades: 0W-30, 10W-30, 10W-40 , 15W-40, 20W-50 Claim: PENN-GRADE 1® High Performance Oils are specially formulated using high quality PENN-GRADETM base stocks and select additive technologies to meet the stringent lubricating demands of high-performance, highly stressed, street and racing engines. Castrol Syntec 20W-50 Grades: 20W50 Claim: "Engineered to increase wear protection for cl***ic cars with flat tappet camshafts" Collector's Choice Motor Oil Grades: 20W50 Joe Gibbs Hot Rod Oil Grades: 10W30, 15W50 Claim: Higher levels of Zinc (ZDP) than regular p***enger car oils. Delivers proper anti-wear protection for older style push-rod and flat-tappet engines. Mobile 1 15W-50 Grades: 15W50 Claim: "Mobil 1 15W-50 is also recommended for older valve train designs that may benefit from a higher level of anti-wear normally not required for newer generation vehicles." Red Line Synthetic Motor Oil Grades: 0W20, 5W20, 0W30, 5W30,10W30, 0W40,5W40,10W40,15W50,20W50 Claim: They make no claim regarding flat-tappet engines on their website. Royal Purple RP Grades: 10W40, 15W40, 20W50 Claim: "For stock or mildly modified flat tappet valve trains (<.525” lift), we recommend our SAE 10W40, 15W40 or 20W50 engine oils." Royal Purple XPR Grades:0W10, 5W20, 5W30, 10W40, 20W50 Claim: "In applications with flat tappet valve trains using high-lift cams and/or high RPM applications, we strongly recommend upgrading to our XPR line of engine oils as these have an even greater concentration of ZDDP providing excellent protection with the higher spring pressures." Engine Break-In Oils/Additives Brad Penn Break-in Oil "The Brad Penn Penn Grade 1 Break-In oil is designed specifically with a lower level of ZDDP and other select additive components as a Break-In oil. Since break in is a wearing process high levels of an anti-wear additive may be counterproductive. The type of ZDDP used in this oil is also more suitable for break in applications." Taken from the Brad Penn website; the concept of less ZDDP for initial break-in is counter to offerings by other vendors. Evaluate for yourself. CompCams Break-in Oil GM Engine Oil Suppliment (EOS) Joe Gibbs Break-in Oil Royal Purple Break-In Oil Technical Background ZDDP (Zinc Dialkyl-Dithio-Phosphate, "zinc" or "zink") is an anti-wear oil additive that contains roughly equal amounts of zinc (Zn) and phosphorus (P) and is particuarly critical for correct lubrication of flat-tappet camshafts. The amount of ZDDP has decreased over time as roller-tappet cams don't require the same levels, and it shortens the life of catalytic converters. The current standard for engine oil is API SM (or ILSAC GF-4), which contains between 600-800 ppm ZDDP. When this oil was introduced in 2004 a broad wave of flat-tappet cams occured. This did not occur with the previous API SL specification with 1000 ppm ZDDP. There's more background if anyone's interested (PM me) but general recommedations are possible from this information: Flat-tappet cam failures started with the reduction of ZDDP < 1000 PPM. Based on this, 1000 PPM ZDDP is the minimum required level. Levels of 1200-1400 ppm ZDDP are required for more extreme cams. What level defines too much ZDDP is unclear, but for street use more than 1400 PPM is likely not appropriate. This is why regular use of ZDDP additives is not recommended. Oil change intervals should be no more than 3,000 miles as ZDDP degrades with use like all additives. Any oil marked API SM and/or ILSAC GF-4/CJ-4 compliance in grades SAE 0W-20, SAE 5W-20, SAE 0W-30, SAE 5W-30 and SAE 10W-30 cannot have sufficient ZDDP. Listed above are oils that claim to contain >= 1000 PPM ZDDP and/or claim to be specifically formulated for flat-tappet cams. Note that the list is specific for product and grades - often a different product or grade by the same manufacturer won't have the same level of ZDDP. I'm not recommending any of these products. Specifically not included in the list are: Racing oils that are only available in single-weight. Racing oils in general aren't a good choice for daily driver use as the additive package isn't intended for it - and it's not intended to go 3,000+ miles between changes. "ZDDP" additives (other than those specifically for engine break-in) as these typically contain well over 2500 ppm ZDDP and cause combustion chamber deposits. Oils not readily retail-available. Diesel oil. The International Lubricants Standards Approval Committee (ILSAC) CJ-4 (diesel) specification states a maximum of 1200 ppm phosphorus but oil ****ysis typically shows significantly less. Also, the additive package is significantly different than gasoline oils. Note regarding switching from mineral to synthetic: There's a lot of feedback that making this switch causes engines to develop leaks. This can be the case, but it's important to understand why. Synthetic oil is more solvent than mineral oil, meaning that it can clean and remove deposits left my mineral oils - and expose worn or damaged oil seals. If your engine currently uses more than about 1 quart every 1,000 miles, you may experience leaks by switching. Note that this solvency is a good thing; this is exactly what keeps an engine far cleaner when running synthetic.
we dyno tested different brands on a dyno and rotella the cheapest of the brands test made the most HP we didn't try Brad Penn as I didn't have any at that time. As other have stated I also had cams loose lobes then switch to Rotella T and EOS for break-ins.Brad Penn worked well on our alky fed motors
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