I'm no expert on rust and corrosion, but I read this message from the AMA & it shocked me a bit. Has anybody else seen this? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "A study involving several state environmental agencies and the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency sought the answer to that question after a compliance inspector with the Petroleum Program in the Virginia Department of Environmental Quality noticed “odd corrosion reactions in some of the sumps” for the underground fuel tanks (Wilson, et al., 2011). Virginia’s DEQ “speculated that acetic acid bacteria (Acetobacter) were producing acetic acid in the sumps. The EPA “speculated that ethanol vapor that originated from the motor fuel was finding its way into water in the sumps, which would provide a source of food for the acetic acid bacteria.” (Wilson, et al., 2011). The study found that sump pumps containing water allowed the acetic acid bacteria to degrade the ethanol to acetic acid. The acetic acid would then cause corrosion of the copper tubing and valves of the pumps (See Figure 1) (Wilson, et al., 2011). Conversely, “If moisture was not available, there would be no opportunity for bacteria to degrade the ethanol to acetic acid” (Wilson, et al., 2011)" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- So, if E15 can do this, I must imagine that any blend of gasohol will do it to some degree. We have E10 here now already. Something we do every time we take out the sport plane, is drain moisture from the gas tanks. It's very easy to do too. (BTW, We burn LL100 avgas, and it has no alcohol in it.) Planes are set up to drain easily, but most cars & light trucks are not, and I'm thinking that since gasohol is probably going to be sold henceforth, it would be a good idea to have some kind of water trap (in addition to the regular filters) which I can easily drain. Some security is perhaps needed if I want to keep my gas from being drained by a crook, but then cars don't have tank drains so who's gonna even look for it? Is anybody in this hobby doing this? Using a quick tank drain? Racers? LSR cars? Anyone?
yes petroleum fuels have bacteria in them , aircraft fuel when we pick it up at the terminal they add stabilizers for storage in the mix , and its also part of the reason why we have to bucket test the trailer before loading , after loading , and before delivery . and when we haul motor gas they spot check us with the bucket test like aircraft fuel . and the additive packages they add to fuel some of the components are corrosive to begin with like the detergents , acetic acid would be the least of your worries , feel lucky you do not own a diesel as diesel fuel will grow slime( alage) in a month if the source was contaminated , and the new ULSD it grows quicker , so we add a biocide to the fuel if the truck is being stored . and the big trucks we have filters we can tap the water off . and rememebr the old glass bowl filters on cars ??? thats one of the reasons why they are on there . the new cars pull the air for the gastank thru a charcoal filter which absorbs the moisture in the air besides trapping the vapors coming from he tank
Drive your car, and you won't have this problem. The future is now, and it's when you should be driving your car. "Reach for the sky, 'cause tomorrow may never come"
You get a lovely layer of slime/bacteria when you do fuel drains on jet aircraft which burn Jet A1 too. Hopefully that "normal" (if you can call that unleaded goop "normal ") gas will still be available without that ethanol crud in it for a while yet.
Screw the EPA,,there has always been microbes and bacteria in all petroleum products. I drive my cars and they don't sit,so I'm not worried about moisture,microbe bacteria or alcohol,I do my best to by where the have alcohol free gas. HRP
sometimes the bacteria themselves excrete acid. Some well water can contain "iron eating bacteria" that excrete sulfuric acid! Some nuc plants have seen stainless tank welds in the heat affected zones riddled with holes like swiss cheese from this problem. Last plant I worked at installed UV sterilizers on the water treatment plant, which made demin water for the power plant, to kill the bacteria since we couldnt' find a source of feed for the water plant other than the infected gravel wells. Boy, now we are really off target, eh?
Having lived on the Iron Range in Minnesota, I remember the sulfur smell and rust stains. I didn't know it was related to bacteria though. I was taught to use distilled water in the cooling system, and IMO this makes it even more of a good idea. Anyhow the AMA (American Motorcycle Association, not Medical, sorry...) is trying to limit alcohol in fuel, and as a member I get all their e-mail, which is where this was found. Even if you don't ride a motorcycle, it's a good idea to help promote their efforts. They stand against all tyrannical policies relating to motoring. 'course you gotta be a 99%er or you'll end up PNG.
The miscibility of water/ethanol/petrochemical blends depends on a number of factors and especially the ratio of the components. Generally, a certain alcohol content will render the mix miscible with water, though that content will vary with other factors. The problem is with mixes with a low alcohol content, so that it will absorb water sometimes but separate it out at other times. Hence, I'd worry more about E10 than E85. Also, the hygroscopicity of ethanol isn't unlimited: it won't keep drawing water forever. E100 will absorb about 4% water out of the atmosphere and then stop. Of course it can get wet in any of a number of other ways, e.g. condensation on the tank roof etc. But once in solution it isn't going to separate spontaneously. Drying E96 to E100 is extremely hard to do on purpose; it isn't going to happen on its own. Bottom line? If the alcohol content is high enough to keep any water there is in solution there shouldn't be any free water available for most kinds of bacterial growth. I don't have a problem with ethanol. I'd love to run my cars on home-brew E96. But I do have a problem with not having a choice.
Ya know, in California, we have "cannibis clubs" now, but why not an ethanol club? Legally you can make it here if you denature it and pay the appropriate tax, but all the paperwork would be a hassle for just the individual. But a club devoted to home-brew fuel? I'm actually thinking there's likely one here already, once the social rooms are reopened.
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