Hot Rods Rust removal and prevention

First; I posted a couple of times already but never said hello. I have been working on cars, motorcycles, and other things since I was a kid. Got out of the mechanic and body work in 95 for easier and better pay. Now I'm all over the being burned out from struggling to make a living, so I am enjoying working on my 34 chevy pickup again. I am located in central Alabama.
Now for the question about rust. I have used Dupont 5717s in the past before painting when I was concerned about not getting all the rust from sandblasting. In the past I just primed after treating. My plans are to use Eastwood encapsulator on the frame of the 34 and then paint. Should I use the Dupont or something else? I know about all the POR and converters and am not even interested I will sandblast first. Any comments, from experience, is greatly appreciated. If this is a repeat tread guide me please. Thanks

 

I'm far from being a expert on paint but after sandblasting I always use final prep and wipe the surface down until I don't see any discoloring on the clean cloths.

I use the green etching primer,,they have always worked for us. HRP

 

Uncle Bob had a nice thread on rust removal!! Might have been on Ford Barn!! Hope he chimes in!! ( I,ll see if I can find it on The Barn) Pete

 

Thanks for the replies. I know that a lot of new products have been made in the last 20 years and I'm trying to catch up.

 

I used over cleaner on my frame before I put the motor back in .It worked great. Just spray it on wait awhile and hose it off. Bruce.

 

Thanks Bruce, I have used oven cleaner on greasy stuff also.My main concern here is that my air compressor doesn't have enough volume to keep up with the sandblasting and I would like to have some insurance that all rust is dead.

 

I've had good luck with por-15 and eastwoods fast etch, contains zinc phosphate.

 

I'm kinda afraid of the POR but I will look at the fast etch. I was looking at the etching primers like HOTRODPRIMER mentioned. O'Reilly sells some that is two part and some that is single. I have never used any of their products but we have stores here. Maybe someone knows and will post.

 

Just don't expect too much from the etching primer! A LOT of guys think that just because it has a bit of acid in it, you can spray it on rust, and it's OK. It's not! The amount of acid in it is just enough to lightly etch the surface for the primer to stick. NOT to remove, or convert rust!
There's a variety of ways to go about this.
First, rust converters...I'm not a huge fan of them, esp. the hardware store variety, some of which are latex based...not a good idea under any automotive paint. I DO use POR-15 or Master Series as a primer on frames that have been sufficiently cleaned, but still have some rust residue that is too difficult to get at. Same with interior floors, trunk floors, and backsides of repair panels. But I'm not a fan of using it anywhere you want to put good paint. Undersides usually get 2 coats, then a coat of undercoat or bedliner while it's still a bit tacky.
Sandblasting is a great way to go. Does a good job, and saves lots of labor, and time, that other "home grown" methods take. I'ts worth it to pay to be done!
Second choices include wirebrushing, or sanding, then using a metal prep like 5717 to disslove the remaining rust. But this is time consuming, and nasty work. You MUST remove all dark spots of rust in the pits of the metal if you go this route! Leaving it dark, will leave rust behind! So scrubbing with ScotchBrite pads, steel wool, or wire brushes is necessary to get it all out of the pits.
You can also clean, and use a product like Picklex, that is an acid based cleaner, but also converts any remaining rust so you can stop worrying about the dark spots you can't get at. It's pretty pricey, but works well.
Other methods include M molasses baths, or electrolysis methods others have detailed out here on the HAMB. Even long soaks in vinegar (acetic acid) will work, but take time.
Besides paying someone to blast it, there's really no easy way to go!

 

Thanks Chopolds, I do plan to sandblast but just like to be sure I get all the rust stopped. I don't have a lot of air volume and I like to do everything myself if I can. One of my main concerns whoever does the blasting is places where you can't reach with media such as frame brackets. I'm looking at rust desolver-converter or whatever and then using encapsulator. My biggest concern is drying time before applying encapsulator.
I still have time to research.

 

sandblast surface rust cut out rot and then clean up the inside panels where you can see them and use por 15. im a big fan of covering the inside and out side of replacement panels with por 15 then priming and painting them(floors rockers and quarter panels get this treatment). I find a lot of rust converters damage the metal more

 

Look into RPM Rust Preventative Magic from ECS Automotive the stuff is incredible Tell Dave Shannon said hello

Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!

 

This is the kind of things I need to know. I'm not used to all the new products.
Thanks, Jim

 

What CHOPIOLDS SAID And may i addAcid treatmennts dont play nice with epoxy primers! ask me how i know!!!!!

 

Good info! More input! More input! # 5 is alive!

 

Yes, I had forgotten to add what Mikhett said...whenever using any acid product, Metal Prep, Ospho, Picklex, be careful what you put over the treated metal. Some epoxies, and even etch or vinyl primers do NOT like going on top of it. Read your instructions or tech sheets carefully!

 

Old chevy dude Your welcome .I know enough just to be dangerous.lol.

 

I really appreciate everybody's help. Crap! I think I just need to go back to the old school way it will outlast me!

 

good thread....

 

I have a bunch of Ford suspension pieces in an citric-acid bath right now. I got about 95% of the grime off them first. I checked it this morning and it seems to be working. Once they're done, I'll have to dip the parts in a baking soda/water bath to neutralize the acid.

I'll be looking at the frame tonight. I power washed quite a bit off it already. I have a couple of cans of cheap oven cleaner, so maybe that's the way I'll go.

 

Let everyone know how it turns out, this is new to me but probably an old method. When I started this tread I wanted to find out more about the newer products that I am not familiar with. As I suspected someone needs to be careful. I feel sure they (or most) are good in some way but bad if you use the wrong combo.

 

Citric acid is pretty safe to handle over more-corrosive acids, biodegradable, etc. I still wear latex gloves and take other precautions as well. So far it seems to be working and I'll figure in a full 3 days in the bath should do it.

 

65pacecar - that RPM looks pretty darn good!

 

I had to leave earlier before I could say, you may want to try Awesome for cleaning grease and grime. We get it here at dollar stores for $1 per spray bottle. Don't dilute, use straight from bottle. It works as good as Wesley's bleach white on tires also.

 

This POR-15 business is new to me as well. I've seen it used in gas tanks for years, but never tried it as an underbody paint. I've heard many tales of how it peeled loose on tanks that probably just weren't 100% clean & etched.

But I'm just a hobbiest. I don't have all the latest paint tech either.
All I know is that, no matter what products you use, everything works better if it's clean.

 

Roger that. Clean and no grease or oil residue if you want anything to stick. I'm afraid of the POR; i've heard too many horrow stories. BUT the person using it has a lot to do with it like anything else. So far nothing bad about encapsulator.

 

Awesome? Sounds awesome, I'll look for it. I picked up this Bissel oven cleaner at Big Lots, works great on grease.

I just took my upper control arms out of the citric acid bath, came out amazingly clean. I had to scrub it here and there. I tossed in 2 grimy backing plates as well. Where the grease was heavy, it stayed that way, the rest needed a minor wire brushing.

Got the a-arms cleaned up, brake clean and then a wipe with lacquer thinner, followed up with VHT roll bar and chassis satin black.

 

This is getting off the subject, but what are you building? The SS396 got my attention?

 

When you say "encapsulator" I assume you're referring to a product from Eastwood. Its another of the same types of paint I'll discuss in the following paragraphs.

I'll say up front that I'm no fan of the POR-15 products because their stuff is all grossly overpriced IMO. That said, their paint and their gas tank sealer are different products. POR-15 is a brand name rather than a particular product.

The POR-15 paint is just one of at least 20 different brands of similar paint. All of them are single component moisture cure urethanes. Instead of having a catalyst, they react with moisture in the air to chemically cross link and harden. Moisture cure urethanes have been around for about 30 years, and were developed originally for use on the structural steel on bridges. There's probably 1000 gallons of moisture cure urethanes used on bridge steel for every gallon used on a car or truck. Most of the manufacturers aim for the industrial market rather than the automotive or hobby markets, so most of them won't be advertised other than in industrial trade publications.

Properly applied, moisture cure urethanes will perform as claimed. Back in the mid-90's I had a boat trailer that was about 10 yrs old. The factory white paint was showing light rust all over, typical of the half-done paint jobs on things like trailers. I pressure washed it and sanded the areas I could get to easily with a DA and 180 paper, not to remove the existing paint or rust but to just scuff the surface for good adhesion. Shot a couple coats of Alumithane, another moisture cure urethane made by Grey Seal Paints, and topcoated it with black automotive acrylic enamel with hardener. That was 18 yrs ago. The trailer stays outside all the time, and to this day there's no rust showing anywhere on it.

Another MCU paint I've used with good results over light to moderate rust is Chassis Saver from Magnet Paints. A lot of paint and body supply houses stock Chassis Saver and its about $50/gal cheaper than POR-15's MCU paint. I've used it primarily in repainting heavy equipment where the factory paint has failed and rust has started and I wanted something that would seal the rust and stop its progress but appearance wasn't a major consideration like it is on a car. Some of those areas are 10+ yrs old now and still looking the same as when they were originally painted.

While MCU paints do work, I would never use any of them, regardless of brand or claims made by the mfgr, on the exterior sheetmetal surfaces of a vehicle where I'm concerned about long term appearance and survival of the paint and substrate. On clean bare metal there's nothing that will match epoxy primer for sealing and protecting the steel long term.

The only thing I can say about rust converters is to stay far away from all of them unless you want problems. Its probably okay if you put it on a rusty steel beam and topcoat with some hardware store enamel, but that's a far cry from autobody quality work. I used it one time on the underside edge of the hood on an F-700 I was repainting for use in our business. In less than 2 yrs rust was creeping up the sides of the hood and all the paint and the rest of the crap was gone from the underside edge where the converter was applied.

I've known at least a dozen other people who've tried it, and every last one of them got bit in the butt a short time down the road as the rust came right back. On the F-700 I could've used some Roloc scotchbrite type discs on a die grinder and taken care of all the rust in a couple hours. Instead, I took a shortcut when I should've known better and ruined an otherwise good paint job.

 

My project is a '59 Ford Custom 300.