Saginaw 4-Speed Issue

Hey guys,

I'm a young guy that's new to the world of driving a stick, and diagnosing issues.

I have a '49 Ford with a 350 Chevy and a saginaw 4-speed behind it. (I know, I know...wasn't my choice.)

I've been learning on it, and haven't had any major mess-ups with grinding gears or dropping the clutch. Overall I've taken it easy. Just this morning I was going to take it out to run an errand, started it up, backed it out of the drive and when I went to put it in 1st gear it wouldn't. It was just stuck in neutral, none of the gears were available. I shut it off and was able to put it in 1st gear. Fired it back up and was able to drive to the end of the block getting it into 2nd gear no problems. I stopped at the end of the block and went to downshift back to 1st...same thing as before, I couldn't move it out of neutral. SO I shut it off, put it back in first and turned around for home.

Anyone know what the issue may be? Is the clutch going out? Bad pressure plate springs? Just want to know what I need to do to fix it, or at least know what kind of repairs are ahead of me.

Thanks for any knowledge or advice!

 

Toss it & put in a T-10 or a Muncie. Mine never did shift right and was always hard to get into first gear no matter what I did

 

Sounds to me like you may have problems with your shift linkage. Does it shift into all gears with the engine off? Lay under it and watch the linkage while someone shifts it (not running) to see if it is going in gear. You can take the shift arms off the transmission and see if the trans goes into a gear that way too.Also make sure your clutch is releasing enough.Does it try to pull when you have the clutch in?

 

It could be the clutch is not releasing all the way. If that's the case, it would probably grind when you try to put it in reverse. How much free play is there in the pedal, when you push on it very gently, before you feel resistance? It should have about an inch of free play, if it has more, then it probably needs adjustment. Also if the pressure plate has a worn lever, or the clutch linkage is set up wrong or worn, that could be causing the clutch to drag.

It could also be an issue with the shifter adjustment.

Might even have too thick of oil in it.

 

It does shift through the gears just fine when it's off. It also grinds when you try and put it in reverse. I'm guessing it may need an adjustment. It has a little bit of play, but overall the clutch is pretty stiff.

 

Try reducing the amount of free play, but don't leave less than half an inch. If it still drags, you need to do some carefull looking at the clutch pedal linkage, or post pictures of it.

 

As Squirrel said, I bet some clutch linkage adjustment will clear up your problem. You just need the clutch to release a bit further. There is still a small amount of drag that puts pressure on the gears in the trans. Once rolling the gears slide in fine, but stopped they do not want to go in. Check clutch adjustment.

 

You should have alot of play if its not disengaugeing. This whole time the throwout bearing could have been riding the clutch which wore out the tips of the diapham of the pressure plate causeing the worn tips to flex not allowing it to disengauge. So now there's only a little bit of play.

The throwout bearing only touches the pressure plate when you step on the pedal only!!! There's suppose to be a gap.

I also find sometimes a new clutch fork needs too be grinded down between the two fingers cause it will contact the throwout bearing not letting it operate freely. Especially those "Heavy Duty" forks. Please check when you put a new clutch in.

 

If you do not try to beat the sh-t out of it the trans is just fine, clutch adj and or shifter adjust should solve it.I have put many miles on my coupe with one and they hold up fine.

 

I had one that did that. changed to a Hurst shifter, never had the problem again

 

As stated above the Saginaw =orig shifter is weak link, use a Hurst and the ****** is fine......

 

It has a hurst shifter on it.

I made a video just now. There is actually a TON of play in the clutch pedal. I didn't realize this morning due to my frustration.

Here is the video. the clutch finally engages when it's nearly to the floor, you can hear the car move and the video shakes near the end.

 

I had a similar problem & it was due to the shift linkage, or more specifically, the shift arms. It was trying to go into two gears at once. I wish I could recall the exact specifics of how it was acting, but it sounds similar to your situation. I ended up doing some surgery to one of the shift arms & it solved the problem. So, I think all of the comments here are on the right track.

 

I just put a Saginaw in my deuce with a Hurst shifter and its fantastic. Better, I think, then the M22 thats in my 40 coupe.

 

It looks like there is not a lot of downward travel of the pedal after it starts "doing something".

Could you maybe take some pics of the clutch linkage? I know it's hard to get pictures of that kind of stuff, since it's buried down in there... but maybe we could see if there's a problem with how its' set up

 

Heres the best I could get without lifting the car. I took a video since I could barely see what was on the screen.

 

The clutch pedal linkage...not the transmission shifter linkage. If it grinds going into reverse when the engine is running, then the clutch is not releasing, and you need to fix it before you even think about working on the transmission or shifter.

 

Oops, sorry, like I posted before...still learning. I'll try to get a shot of it, not sure if I can get a good shot of anything or not.

 

your shifter was not in neutral, did you think it was in neutral?

 

In the video? No, I don't have a working emergency brake, so when it's parked I leave it in gear.

 

I had a Hurst on a Saginaw and had issues shifting. Dropped the arms off the ****** and put it in nuetral then slid a 1/4 inch rod into the alignment hole to synchronize the shift arms on the shifter with the shifter in nuetral, then hooked up the rods to the ******. Worked fine after that. FWIW.

 

good luck and keep after it.just for the record,i run a saginaw in my 59 el camino,i don't abuse it but it has lasted 23 +/- years. now i have worn out the shifter tho:<)

 

I see good suggestions about resolving the issue the OP is having. What I don't understand is why people are quick to say the Saginaw is the root of the problem and that changing to a differant trans will resolve a clutch adjustment .

 

Thanks Johnny.....I was wondering that myself.

 

Also check for loose bellhousing bolts, and the bolts that hold the trans to the bell..If things are moving around your clutch wont dissengauge fully.

 

I was ***uming he did that right out of the chute. You did that, right? (Nothing wrong with the Saginaw, by the way. I had a few of them & they all worked fine if you don't beat the living hell out of them.)

 

Just ignorance! Some people fall for extreme brand loyalty.I've had Muncie, Borg Warner, and Saginaw 4 speeds. They were all fine. I really thrashed on a Saginaw behind a 427 and never broke it.

~Alden

 

I too agree, sounds like the clutch to me. Lippy

 

I beat the hell out of the saginaw 4 speed in my nova with a built 6cyl and never had any probs. nothing wrong with a saginaw as long as you dont try to put 500 hp through it. I had a MR gasket shifter and it shifted great!

 

I see another possibility. It might be a leverage/ ratio issue. The clutch pedal might not actually push the clutch fork in far enough because it wasn't designed for this engine/trans. There is always the possibility that even if all of the play is taken out of the clutch pedal so that it has zero play, that when you push the pedal down, it is only partly dissengaging the clutch. I would shut the engine off, remove the inspection plate and have someone push the pedal all the way to the floor and look at the clutch to see if the disc is free once the pedal is all the way down.