Saginaw vs. Muncie- hype or really stonger?

TH400 output shaft. The nodular iron case was only used in 80-81 2nd gen camaros with the 3.42 (6 grooves) first gear. It has the same casting number as the aluminum case, but ends in 904 instead of 903. Some aftermarket ST10s have the 904 case also.

You can make a ST10 that is stronger than a rockcrusher by using the iron case and the common 2.64 1st gear set. The weak point on the ST10 and the Muncies is the case flexing and letting the gear mech walk to the edged of the teeth.

 

the M20, M21, and saginaw all have the same mounting points and output shaft splines/length.

but the shifters are different....

 

I've got an all iron T 10 that looks like one of the first ones--until you notice the fine spline output and 1981 casting date code on it. It must be some sort of factory replacement transmission???

 

Racer Rick explained it above, thanks

 

They put Saginaw's in Vega's, Monza's, and V6 Camaros.....enough said!

Its like putting a 7.5" 10 bolt behind a healthy small block or even worse, a big block.....don't "under-build" your ride.

Anyway, Muncie's are pretty pricey these days, you might want to look for an ST-10. I picked this one up a few years ago for my 51 Chevy for $700, all new guts and ready to go!

 

I know nothing about Muncie's but I had a Saginaw in one of my circle track cars and it was just about the only thing I didn't break that season. I just bought a Sag-4spd for $125 so I'd snag that one for 50 clams if you still can.

 

Loading the drivetrain is for automatics




.

 

Use a line lok....

 

Saginaws were in lotsa mild performance camaros/chevelles and other GM cars.

 

Don't forget corvair.

 

Had a Saginaw in my 68 327/4 bbl Beaumont (Chevelle)........Held up just fine. Syncros went after a bit, but Muncies did that too. Saginaws have a lower 1st gear than an wide ratio Muncie........which gives a better launch if you have 3.23s.

 

I have three feet....

normally it's an inconvienence, but it helps when I drag race a manual trans car.

 

I've broken 3 Saginaws, but never broken a Muncie. I did have to rebuild one of my Muncies, but it was because the front bearing went out, not because of breaking it while beating on it.

There used to be a video of my Shoebox breaking the mainshaft in a Saginaw 4 spd on here somewhere.

I'm not saying you can't break a Muncie, because you obviously can....I'm just saying that it's harder to break a Muncie than a Saginaw 4 spd.

 

amazing how these disagreements just never go away. I am a firm beliver in running what I got. You build it you should know what it will take,or won't take as the case may be. As a side note I picked up this 1964 M20 out of a vette for $200 last Friday. Watch them local seller sheets you would be surprized what pops up.

 

Exactly. The main point I am trying to convey is to be totally honest with yourself about what your rod actually needs. As it turns out, it's going up against a flathead, and even the meanest of flatheads will have a rough time grenading a Saginaw four speed. I can't even guess how many rod projects I've seen where the owner/builder just HAD to have a Ford 9 inch rear, when the powerplant was a basically stock 305 that could have made do with a 10 bolt from a '63 Chevy II for lots less money.

 

Brian does this all sound familiar?

 

you guys are funny,i broke WAY more muncies than saginaws....short-shiftin' tends to clean off the cluster gear.....

btw, the shifters are the same, the rods aren't...

 

I broke them all.saginaws are cast iron while the muncie is aluuminum. sags are great if you just want a 4 speed while they are cheaper to buy,but my money is on the muncie

 

So how do you tell them apart at the swap meets or junkyards? Do they say Muncie or Saginaw? Or am I gonna hafta buy the secret decoder ring to find out?

 

Being a car salesman is NOT an excuse for p***ing bad information. Some of what you said has a kernal of truth but if I were you I'd stop swallowing, smoking or injecting whatever it is your on long enough to get the story straight.

Frank

 

OK Frank, I dont sell cars, but what don't you seem to agree with?

 

Sure, I've got the rings. $35 plus shipping, and I give a ten percent discount to Alliance members.

In a nutshell, Muncies are all aluminum, while Saginaws are all cast iron. Muncies have the 1-2 and 3-4 shift arms in the side cover and the reverse shift arm in the tailstock, while Saginaws have all three shift arms in the side cover. All else being equal, a man will collapse from carrying a Saginaw at least 100 yards before he will from carrying a Muncie, but the Muncie buyer will also have a much lighter wallet.

 

Mostly by weight!

The saginaw will have a cast iron case and all 3 of the shfter arms on the side cover.

The muncie will have an aluminum case and the 2 forward gear shift levers will be on the side cover, the reverse lever will be on the tailshaft.


jerry

 

In 1968 I bought a new 327/275 Camaro with a 2.54 Saginaw and a 12 bolt rear. I raced that car for 2 years(street tires in Pure stock) and powershifted every chance I got on the street. I sold it to my brother and he drove it another 3 years. Never had a problem with that trans. I certainly would not hesitate to use one today in anything short of a dedicated drag racer. The higher numerical low gear trannies are the ones to be careful with. They came in the real lightweight cars. Enjoy banging gears with whatever you decide on!

 

That's it in a nutshell!!!

If the ****** in question was too dirty to tell at a glance, guys I ran with used to carry small magnets with 'em to swap meets and stuff...easy to tell the two apart then...the magnet sticks to the Saginaw's case!

 

or read the post where I told you....but I guess it was in secret code.



this is a saginaw, iron case, iron tailhousing, all the shift levers are on the side cover




this is a muncie, aluminum case and tailhousing, side cover is NOT curved on the bottom, the reverse shift lever is in the tailhousing




this is a T-10, it has a curved bottom side cover

 

I believe all Sags have 7 bolt side covers.

 

I guess a fairly common problem with the sags is that they love to blow out the reverse gear.. ive heard a few instances of that. a good buddy of mine has a sag in his 63 truck behind a built 327... no problems as of yet, and he loves to thrash the **** out of it. it was a 75 dollar transmission..