Projects SBC Intake To Early Caddy Adapters

Will they fit a 1966 429?

 

Does an intake off a 66 429 fit the early motors? If so then yes, if not the no.

 

you can 3d print those adapters ...no need for foundry ...high temp filaments available...in grey....stay tuned...

 

Choptop,
My adapters are machined from bar, not cast. I got a few quotes for printing in polysulfone, good to 600F. It cost more than a single aluminum set machined. $700.00+. You still need to put in the inserts and even with them I would worry about a bad backfire loosening them. The exhaust crossover may still be to hot. If they are not a solid machinable plastic you would not be able to port match. Other than that a production plastic is worth investigating. Feel free to do the leg work for me if you want to. I have to many irons in the fire to research it right now.
JK

 

Super hard to polish plastic to a high lustre, too.

 

Sadly, the 429 uses a wider manifold than the 390.

 

Might be possible to build a set, in any case. It just might not be feasible.

 

ok i see your point about the exhaust crossover ...mmmm ok back to the drawing board...ill look into it and get back to you...thinking it might be more cost effective to cnc mill them out of bar stock then..once the program is coded then wash rinse repeat ???

 

Beanscoot,
How much wider and are the angles different? is 63 to 66 the same? If there is a several year compatibility and enough interest it may be worth looking into after the first version is up and running.

JK

 

I don't recall the details, but years ago (pre-internet) I bought a 3x2 intake made for an earlier Caddy to put on my 1964 429. It did not fit. I'm pretty sure all years of 429s are the same dimensionally.

I think I paid about $200 for this NOS intake with three carbs, and sold it for a little more. I wonder what it's worth now?

The 429 Cadillac is a great engine, 340 hp and 480 ft-lbs of torque IIRC. It had 10.5 to 1 compression ratio and machined combustion chambers. It came stock with a TH400 which is another real plus.

From what I learnt back then I concluded that there never was an aftermarket intake for the 429.

 

...had a 66 deville , that 429 moved that car with ease , drove it up to Canada one weekend to partake of the stronger brew ...you hoser...ha ah

 

This is amazing work. Anything to make running an obsolete engine easier and less cost prohibitive is awesome in my book.

 

Thanks guys! As far as I can tell nothing is available for the 429 Cadillac engines. It’s like it is the bastard step child.

 

SS327,

I'll get the early motor version dialed in and then I'll take a look at the 429. The yard I got the 1960 390 out of has the 429 version as well. I believe there is one in their engine shed with the intake off so I could check the fit without buying another motor. The fact that the 429 is a red headed step child makes it deserving of some lovin'. I'll contact you when I start on it.

JK

 

It is interesting that the big intake manifold manufacturers didn't bother to make an intake for the 429. Perhaps by 1964, when the 429 came out, Cadillac engines had lost a little of their cachet as Chevy, Ford and Chrysler had cheaper, available V8s?

Or maybe the earlier Caddy intakes weren't selling well so they didn't want to take a chance on the 429.

 

The aftermarket intake bolted on OK but a GM would not bolt to both sides due the front to rear "stagger" being off a little bit. I'm still waiting for the revised 3D printed adapters. Here is what I did to measure the error. I bolted the intake to one side almost tight but made sure I could still slide it front to rear to measure the slop in the bolt hole. I added a dial indicator and tightened the intake with the slop centered. I "zeroed" the indicator, unbolted the intake and carefully slid it until I could bolt the other side. I repeated the centering procedure and snugged the intake. I noted the number on the dial, divided it by two and that's how far I need to move the Chevrolet side. I repeated the process for the other direction as well. I tried to eyeball measure it but that was too "iffy" on accuracy.

JK

 

By the time that 429 Caddy engines became readily available in salvage yards, the 472 and 500’s had became what was sought after. There was just never enough demand to make a production run of intakes for the odd-ball 429 a financially feasible proposition.
Now intake adapters may become available, but the days of cheap salvage yard 429s are a distant memory. Not to discourage the project, but is highly unlikely that demand will ever substantially rise at this late date.
The 331-390 early series are hot rod classics still in demand. The 472-500s are light weight torque monsters, both offer advantages over the short run 429 and will continue to.

 

After some research on the Cadillacs, it turns out that in 1963 the engine was very much redesigned, and although it remained 390 cu in, it is quite different from the '62 and back engines.

The 429 is a bored and stroked 390 and externally interchangeable. Which means that a 429 intake will fit a 390 or 429 in the five year span 1963-7.

I'm going to guess that one reason the earlier engines had more interest is that there were factory 3x2 intakes as well as 2x4s. Just the look of those engines must have gotten many a young man's blood flowing quicker back in the fifties!

 

The hot rodders interest in the 331 Cadillac was there from day one, even with its measly 2 barrel carb. Compact, overhead valves, twice the power of a flatty, rodders were swapping them into Ford’ and Studebaker’s within months of introduction, driving the demand for muti-carb intakes and a plethora of aluminum dress up items. The factory offered hop-up items were actually late arrivals on the scene.

 

Here is a little something to edify the interested in history as to how early the OHV 331 Cadillac V-8 was fitted out with aluminum multi-carb aftermarket intake manifolds; The Who? Why? and When? https://velocetoday.com/frank-burrell/

 

Cadillac induction system circa 1950, on the 'Le Monstre' Le Mans race car.
https://revsinstitute.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/Le-Monstre0011-1500x990.jpg

 

Here' s the picture from the previous post's link to save everyone the trouble:

 

Some Cadillac V engines were fitted with multiple carburetors FROM THE FACTORY as early as 1930.

1930 - two 1-barrel Johnson carbs
1931-1937 two 1-barrel Detroit Lubricator carbs
1938-1940 two 2-barrel Carter carbs

Do not know exactly when Detroit Racing produced the 2 x 2 manifold for Cadillac, however; in years gone by, restored half a dozen or more of these set-ups. They all came to me with two Carter 595s two-barrels. The 595s was factory Cadillac from 1946 through 1948. One would think that current production carburetors would have been used.

Jon.

 

Frank Burrell was a Engineer on the Design team for the 331 Cadillac and was involved with making the 2x2 intakes in 1947-48 for the new OHV 331, long before the engine was released to the public.
Actually just a continuation of what he had been involved with in the '40s, engineering and providing the Army with twin two-barrel intake setups for the Cadillac powered M5A1 (Chaffee) tanks.
So, yes Cadillac had decades of experience with multi-carb setups, but the first -Production Line- available setup for the OHV 331 was the 2x4 -cast iron- intake used on the 1955 270 h.p. Eldorado. Aftermarket aluminum 'Hot Rod' and 'Marine' 2x4 intakes, such as Detroit Racing Equipment, Edmunds, Edelbrock and others were available earlier.

 

"A fly in the ointment," if you will...

 

I'm impressed by your attention to detail!
A lot of guys would have missed that.

 

Further research indicates that the the first 4 barrel carburetors were introduced in 1952, so that sets the earliest year for the general availability of any 4 barrel or dual quad intakes.
However, it needs consideration that auto manufactures engineers likely had much earlier 'insider' information, access, and input in the development, testing and setting up of these new-fangled carbs. They did not just magically develop and appear overnight, at least months would have been required for engineering, development and testing.
It is rather doubtless that Frank Burrell and his crew at Cadillac were able to capitalize on that information and have the aluminum (DRE ?) manifolds ready to roll out as soon as these carbs became available.
The principal players names are known, but who was the OWNER(s) of the Company known as "Detroit Racing Equipment"?

 

You referring to the Frank Burrell known here as FAB32?

 

No. Unless he is a General Motors engineer born in 1915. http://velocetoday.com/frank-burrell/ And went on to become the Corvette race program director.
First French Foray | Issue 59 | Corvette Magazine (corvette-mag.com)
There are several persons with that name.