Technical SBC long to short water pump

Picked up a project recently, a 23 T bucket.
It came with a ZZ3 crate engine (verified by stamp on block) that has a long water pump and funky alt mount.


I am NOT a SBC knowledgeable person. I'd like to convert it to a short water pump to gain room for a mechanical fan. It currently has an electric in front that isn't good looking or keeping it cool in traffic. It also has a BIG ATF cooler on the back of the radiator, in the way of a mechanical fan. I hope to put this under the passenger floor area, but won't dive in until I have a solid plan.
Short pumps are listed as up to 68. This is much later. I've heard of the easy swap compatibility of these, but want to confirm before pulling the trigger. As far as I can tell, this requires the pump and bolts, pulleys, a fan and an alt. mount, along with a new belt.
Will the following be all that is needed? Are there damper depth or bolt pattern differences? As you can see from the pictures, I'd have to disassemble to check them.
I went to Speedway's site for the parts. This is what I found.

mechanical fan 17" (18" might fit, but used this one)
https://www.speedwaymotors.com/Speedway-Steel-Mechanical-Cooling-Fan,332310.html?sku=9101571-17
Water pump (std. cast iron, aluminum worth the extra?)
https://www.speedwaymotors.com/Speedway-Small-Block-Chevy-Short-Steel-Water-Pump,1819.html
upper and lower pulleys single groove
https://www.speedwaymotors.com/1955...Lower-Short-Water-Pump-Kit-Chrome,379668.html
bolt kit for water pump
https://www.speedwaymotors.com/King-Chrome-Small-Block-Chevy-Short-Water-Pump-Bolt-Kit,6211.html

low alt. mount kit
has this note "This bracket will NOT work with Speedway's T-bucket kits because the frames are too narrow."
https://www.speedwaymotors.com/Small-Block-Chevy-Low-Mount-Alternator-Bracket-Chrome,38956.html
so it sounds like I either have to use a different mount up higher, or go with a mini alt. and more money.
This one mounts up top, but has little belt engagement with WP. At least the pics show it clearing the outlet and intake.
https://www.speedwaymotors.com/Small-Block-Chevy-Upper-Alternator-Bracket-Chrome,38974.html
The early mounts were on the driver's side and attach at the exhaust, which I'd prefer to avoid due to the header and I want to wire things on the right, plumbing on the left.
Mainly looking for confirmation that this will work and not stall while trying to find and get more stuff. I'm not opposed to a fan clutch too, if there is room and it would help. A shroud can be fabbed, but hoping to drive with just this.

 

You have the needs addressed. When I swapped my 350 to swp I went with a high and to the left stock style bracket

 

Maybe look at the Zips option. High mount fan. Alternator bracket made in. AC comp made in. 16 inch fan may work also. Add a cooling component shroud. Runs cool.

 

Depth at the dampener/pulley interface from the block and the bolt pattern should be the same. Verify the center hole in the upper pulley. There were two sizes but doubt it's and issue with those parts.

 

I will say I am running those very same speedway chrome pulleys and very happy with them. No belt slip plus they're very true.....no observable wobble at all. In fact more true than the low mileage 55 Chevy pulley I replaced. Now their alternator pulleys are hit or miss. Nearly trashed my new alternator getting the slightly installed one off when it wouldn't press on. Ended up using the chrome alternator fan with stock alternator pulley

 

There is a setup using a 8" harmonic balancer and short water pump that works. But it requires a 8" balancer that's 1.121" thick to clear. They are becoming hard to find. However if you don't mind giving back of the space gain you could use water pump and pulley shims to make it work.

 

I'd do some checking to see if a mechanical fan will fit between the lower pulley, and the radiator, with enough clearance to not hit anything. And just move the transmission cooler.

And replace the upper alternator bracket with the factory part. The pump you have might not have the needed mounting tab? I can't see with the current pictures. They made a couple different brackets to fit different intakes. Maybe the 69-early 70s type.



One advantage of the long pump is that it lets the alternator fit in front of the head, so it's not hanging out in the breeze...which on a T bucket, with such a small grill shell area, would help.

 

@Jmountainjr This damper appears to be 8", but is 1.6" thick.
What's needed?
@squirrel I'm not opposed to running the long pump, but figure a little more working room would be nice and a bit more vintage. I can take a picture to clarify if needed. A fan would fit without the cooler, but it would be "remove radiator to remove fan" procedure.
This bracket?
https://www.speedwaymotors.com/Clas...lternator-Bracket-Set-1969-74-SBC,119335.html
Like this? Intake doesn't have the stand for that upper bolt.

 

V8 Monza st up , short water pump , Alt between pass valve cover & thermostat,
Some of the gm brackets pricey,
Zipps set up same as short water pump
With straight 6 chevy water pump

 

I think the mounting hole on the water pump for the alternator bracket went away late 80s when they went to big cast aluminum brackets to mount things, with a serpentine belt.

I prefer using a good flex fan, with large curved stainless blades, but would prefer a clutch fan, if it will fit. Usually need a spacer with the flex fan to get the fan blade to clear the lower pulley. You also need at least 1/2" between fan (or clutch) and radiator. This might be impossible with the long pump.

 

That's one reason I liked the second bracket I posted. It's kind of jammed on top, but seems to clear okay. Note that it sure looks like a T with the rad cover and headers, plus an intake that's similar.

 

stinkin' wheels are hard to find! No way I'm going to track down Monza stuff.

Zipps. This alone is what all the parts I listed cost, and it doesn't have the pump, plus I don't need to raise the fan.
https://www.speedwaymotors.com/Zips-SBC-Small-Block-Chevy-V8-Water-Pump-Riser-Kit,58831.html
I am not trying to be argumentative, but that's an expensive fix for problems I don't have.

 

this setup is pretty hard to get the belt wrapped around the fan/wp pulley to keep from slipping

 

I have a short pump on here with homemade brackets, a Allstar water pump pulley and a OEM bottom pulley. The Allstar pulley required a bushing as it has a 3/4 hole in it.

 

I think this pump doesn't have that bolt hole. Problem is, I still need that intake spot too, right?

Yeah, the guys that do power tours all say clutch fan and shroud. I'd like to do this once, right. Another reason to go shorty.
Anyone have a fan/clutch combo that's around 17-18 inches and short? Measurements?
This says short pump is 5-5/8-inch (5.625-inch) and long is 7 inches.
https://www.speedwaymotors.com/the-...8860?msockid=11e469ee60956c041ea27d5761a26d08
so I gain 1 3/8" in there.

 

I have not purchased one, so can not verify, but the following 350 applications used the 8" balancer that's 1.121" thick:
67-68 all
trucks through 72
Corvette through 70
Also the 67-68 302.
Seems the current aftermarket focus is generic later 350s.

 

Agreed! not optimum.

 

Here I am with a later model generic 350!
What's the bolt-on parts list to do it?

 

$$$ & parts are what I think about when new comers get into the Life / Hobby ,
Its not cheap , & run down to junk yard ,
45 plus year old vehicles not as common in the parts,,, fortunately I grew up around this, have stash of parts since 7 & how many vehicles I have stripped down & parts trashed that are now hard to find , reproduction brackets and other things, afew mouths ago I was looking for stock 4 four barrel air cleaner set up, non drop Gm Ford Mopar , $200-300 ,
(Late 60s -90 some TBI s)
Probably since I was 7 had tossed 30 ish , & looking for cross H bars for 9 inch rears I trashed , because converting over to dic for last 20 ish years ,

since you not Gm , & you have to buy new /Re pop your more likely $250

 

C3 Corvettes used short water pumps '68-'82 (and really the C4 350s used an aluminum SWP variation until '92 but they had serpentine belt systems). These would have later heads with mounting holes so brackets and pulleys are available.

 

The shortest clutch fan I know of is 90s
Jaguar

 

fan 37.79
wp 71.09 (yes, the local auto parts store can beat this)
pulleys 55
bolts 8 (yes, I can go to hardware store, but these are correct and chrome, cheap)
171.88 total for all but the alt brackets, which seem to be a concern.
If I can confirm that 250 gets this done in one shot, I will do it.
I'm hoping I can get confirmation that the items selected will work or suggestions for better parts.
I have provided pictures to make sure I've got what I described.
Not new, just never SBC before.

 

The early bracket uses the thermostat mounting bolt.



On the fan...measure between the LOWER pulley and the radiator. That's usually the limiting factor on a flex fan.

With only 2" between fan and radiator, a clutch fan won't fit there. Also, the angle of the radiator, vs the angle of the engine, plays into it.

 

That appears to be a very short wrap on the wp pulley . I use a short pump , puller electric fan, low mount alternator , 1/2" between pump snout & fan motor , keeps its cool im 90° weather on parade route .

 

His thermostat housing looks rotated from that early set up and I think the long pump with the mounting tab is needed. '69-74 Nova.

 

@squirrel this is the early alt bracket that bolts to the t'stat?
Thought they were all left side, which is why I'm clarifying. This came up using 68 Chevelle.
https://www.speedwaymotors.com/Spectre-47293-Alternator-Bracket,157674.html
That means since it's ahead of the head, it's going to use the long pump, but will replace the homemade current bracket.

I understand that a clutch fan won't fit now, it's why I'm trying to get a short one in there, to improve working and options.
Radiator back to forward edge of (long water pump) crankshaft pulley is 3 inches. Radiator to forward edge of damper is 6 inches. Just checked the (double groove) long crankshaft pulley specs on speedway and they measure the depth at 2.79". 1/4 inch off somewhere.

 

This is a fan I bought for Almost Funny, and didn't use. It might fit in there now, if you move the transmission cooler out of the way, and use the right thickness spacer.



This is my truck, it seems you need almost 4" to fit a clutch fan between water pump and radiator.

 

@RodStRace you know they do make a right side header bracket. I always cut the vertical portion with the bolt holes off and weld it to the top of the header flange. (Some early headers had them welded to the header flange on the drivers side.) This is way better than bolting them on. Then get the flat slotted generator bracket for the top and flip it over. This way your can run the short pump. Just a thought.

https://www.corvettedepot.ca/alternator-bracket-right-mount-headers-2-piece

https://www.classictruck.ca/electri...nator-bracket-painted-headers-right-1955-1957

 

@squirrel , thank you!
The flex fan would fit with the cooler gone.
The short pump is 1 and 3/8" shorter, I've got 2 inches now, so that would not allow a clutch. Answers!!!

So I can
1. Stay with the current setup and use the 68 chevelle long bracket, which will need a new WP with the tab to also hold the bracket and use a flex or solid fan. Would try it with current fan in place but off to make sure it cools.
pdf showing this bracket bolts to forward intake bolt.
https://content.speedwaymotors.com/DigitalAssets/assets/testing/46547293_INS_2021_1.pdf

2. Go with a short pump and pulleys, but still be limited to the flex or solid fan, and might be able to add a shallow electric puller? Alt. mount is still not determined, since the low mount seems not to clear the frame, and the high center mount is iffy on WP engagement, or the left side high header mount that hangs out.