Technical SBC long to short water pump

Sbc ,Short water pump ,
passenger side under water pump inlet ,
Cardboard for patterns,
I ways really bored one time ,I made a pulley 5 mm belt on the back of the crank , between flex & rear main ,alternator underneath,, dum oddball thinking , many things before film was free

 

Well, the old timers would hacksaw, grind and file to the end result, but that price looks pretty darn good!
60 bucks is 20 more than this one and is nicely tucked. Always liked the chrome up there, but the cinch bolt always cracked it and slipped on those.
https://www.speedwaymotors.com/Spectre-47293-Alternator-Bracket,157674.html
Looks like spacers would be needed too at the top left pivot bolt and where the bracket bolts to the pump/block. Only downside is it gets in the way of the lower hose being hand twisted off, which is honestly looking for faults. In a fendered car this would be annoying to tension, like old Ford air pumps and alt.s they mounted down there. For mine though, it's a breeze.

Just need to make sure the belt and hose play nice.

 

yeah, that hose location, due to how the radiator is built, would not work too well with the low mount

 

@squirrel what's the story on the new avatar?

 

My set up is below water pump & back under block,as far as I know No one makes ,Denso 100'amp
Not like this pic

 

Can’t have it all. I’ve made and run them. Not a big deal to service lower hose. I mean, how often do you have too? As well, the alternator will swing 180* up clockwise out of the way after removing adjuster bolt and belt are removed.

No differant than unzipping your pants, right? That’s a thinker by the way.

 

the pinion out of the Corvette. It had broken off the tooth unknown decades before I got the car, and I drove it that way for a little while before swapping gears.

 

@Johnny Gee I do like it. Kudos for finding it!

It's an answer from the wide, deep and cheap aftermarket that fits my desires. Uses the same alt., tucks it in, mounts on the right, and isn't some bling fest. I'd have to get the outlet on the rad redone and a new lower hose is all. No water pump, no pulleys, should accept any fan that would work before. Rad work would improve fan fitting, too.
Bracket 60
Fan
Hose 15?
Belt 15?
Rad work ??
It will mean tearing off the rad, removing the fan and cooler and taking it in for work. Always a roll of the dice that they tell you ya gotta buy new, but there is a good shop in Prescott. Noon on Friday is never a good time to try to get something quoted or done, so I'll check on this next week.
EDIT: the overflow tube needed to be fixed too, so a small thing down the list can be knocked off at the same time.

 

60 buck’s is cheap if one total’s time and material. Mine were made on government time and material as well as equipment.

 

Unsealed (dusty) garage without power or water. Cheap drill press sitting on a bench with incomplete and worn drills (small extension cord from porch), roll around air compressor on porch with 50' hose extending to garage. Fab shop it ain't!
Used to work at a machine shop, doing things away from the lathes and mills. Have a basic understanding of what is required to lay that out, and it's possible, but then getting material and doing the work I'd rather have a known fit part from craftsmen. Lazy sod, I guess.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbkNm739ULA

 

6061 aluminum (material) and a jig saw with wood cutting blade.

 

I agree with both, but prefer the second!
Will take it out again today and monitor temps, and have fun this weekend with it. Will also swing down the alt and mark up the radiator where the belt will run so the lower outlet can be moved out of the way, since it seems to use the same pivot point. Will either disassemble or bolt back up the trailer tires and haul it to the shop for a quote. If that's reasonable and not a big issue, the kit will be ordered and the radiator dropped off.

 

I’ve had people ask to make them one. I say no. You can buy it cheaper than I’ll charge.

 

There is many here Know where you are coming from, This hobby is not easy as it was 30 yeas ago , OR Cheap When on budget and pockets empty , especially for 8 years , & last 3-1/2 of this century when they convince people to crush out all of these clunker old cars,, ( Fools)
My newest vehicle 1994 , sold my 2019
When looking @ new scan tool 7k
Tool man said it will pay for its self Quick my response was it's only for personal use ,not to make money with,
Down the road went the 2019 ,
My Ramp truck was 76 , would like to have back , Miss Vent windows & gutters,

My lathe , 1928 & 1941 , 50% of time to small do what I need to do,,
I remember not to long ago using cracks
In porch to bend metal , Lifting engines out with 4x4 , person on each side of fenders ,, I am mid 50s

 

Yeah, when I worked in various shops, often with other specialty shops in the same complex, small tasks were just that, small. Dual 4 bbl scoop? HVAC shop had it knocked out in under an hour. Need a couple chunks of metal welded together? Exhaust shop.

That's not the current situation. I'm not complaining, it's just the reality I am in. A rolling bench with a vise sitting on it, not even bolted down. 4 various files and a couple hacksaws. Yes, that can be enough, but I also know that two trips to the metal supply place 30 miles away and a messed up first try gets closer to the cost of the done part, not to mention the sweat.

 

Like you, I don't like alternators or anything sitting high on an engine, especially an exposed engine. You might be able to get a non-GM alternator from an old mini truck and make it sit low and clear the frame on the T bucket. I will be attempting to do something similar on my Cad engined 32 project. Right now I plan to use a later model GM alternator that gives me 145 Amps ......but I doubt that your T will need a larger amp unit. A small one tucked on either side down low would look lot nicer when done. As for the fan clearing the radiator, is there any room to move your radiator/shell a little forward ? I'd see just how much (if any) you can gain there, and put the fan shroud you want to use behind it. Once that's done, I'd see just how much room you have between the water pump and the shroud........then decide if you have to use a shorter pump/or not. I'd do all that before buying any parts.






This guy got a fan in there. Would look a lot better if a small alternator was down near the motor mount. If making a bracket is a problem, someone with a plasma cutter could make a nice one pretty cheaply. If you plan to keep the car for a long time, a few more dollars spent can make it look a lot nicer for the long haul.

 

@ekimneirbo , gotcha with that visual!
It's been hashed out and to fit a clutch fan (best case solution), it would require 4 inches between the snout and the radiator. https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/sbc-long-to-short-water-pump.1319981/#post-15298180
On this car I've got 2 inches with the long pump.
https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/sbc-long-to-short-water-pump.1319981/#post-15298120
As per your own graphic and other sources, going from long to short adds 1 3/8".
So I need to get 5/8" minimum additional space to install a clutch fan with a short pump. Otherwise, it will just use a regular fan that fits either long or short. No reason to change except the clearance between fan and radiator for servicing.

I could remount the radiator forward, at the risk of messing up the look. 5/8" is possible. There is also the much discussed short pump alternator mounting locations, which is the reason behind that picture.

So at this point, I don't expect to go to the effort of what was asked in the title
SBC long to short water pump since I would have to make bigger changes to upgrade the fan and the short wp mounts are mostly up and out, unless it's at the top of the engine with poor belt wrap on the WP or get a whole other alternator and bracket.

It's either the one @Johnny Gee posted down low on the passenger side if the time and money for the radiator mod is reasonable, or the 69-74 upper mount in basically the same place it is now, but requiring the stock style long WP with a tab this one doesn't have and the brackets.

 

I would of never thought of explaining it that way

 

I used a small Alternator off a Daihatsu Applause,55 amp which is 20 amps more than i could draw on the car with everything on at once. It tucks in close to the block with a simple bracket off the two early front mount holes. The only charging thing that looks ok out the side is a generator on an early build. JW

 

Hey Rod I just remembered back in the day we would modify mid 70s smog pump lower brackets to mount the alternator low on the passenger side of long water pump SBCs. You remember the one's I'm talking about? The air pump hung directly below the alternator and ran on the same belt. I just shit canned one last week

 

Hey John I've got a couple alt. brackets you can look at if you want.

 

I flipped the alt down and it will work, but I need to either use a section of metal in the lower hose or get the rad modified. I think I'll try to do the first. Less chance of issues.
So once I find the tubing with the right bend, I'll order the kit.

 

See there! Experimenting is free and answers a lot of unknown’s.

 

Thanks @26 T Ford RPU, trying to use what I've got. We don't get many Daihatsus over here, although I'm sure there is a small Hitachi alt that would work, it's getting into more wiring, bracket and belt.
@lumpy 63 yeah, those low mount air pumps were a bane to my work. Still have the homemade puller I made to rebuild them. Did dozens at Matt's.
@Jacksmith thanks for the offer, I will be going with the one @Johnny Gee came up with.
I just have to find a bit of tubing, figure out the new cooler location and it's good!

 

You might go back and read what I wrote before posting some dork picture. As I mentioned the brackets I linked allow the alternator to be located above or below the bracket. In my old picture of my '39 it's above, but since then I flipped it down below, so it hangs from the bracket.
Which hopefully meets your standards and we can avoid stupid pictures.

 

It was to point out that a short water pump setup does not allow the alternator to be mounted within the front Vee of the engine, meaning it sticks out. Here's your picture.

Here's the front of my T, which I had just posted and explained with the following text

"This is why I don't want the alt hanging out over the valve cover with the short pump.
See the breather on the driver side? It would be out from there. Bad enough the coil and M/C on the firewall. Gotta keep it clean and simple."

If you click on the picture, it gets bigger. You can clearly see the valve cover and the front header tube. If I used the bracket that mounts on the front header bolts, which I had already said I'd prefer not to do, the alt is either outside and above the valve cover as shown in your picture or hangs outside and below the bracket, which I'm not sure would clear the header. I have read and understood what you wrote, and appreciate that you took the time and effort to respond with your experience. However, I had many responses suggesting the same style mount, which I explained my personal feelings about in my very first post in this thread.
"The early mounts were on the driver's side and attach at the exhaust, which I'd prefer to avoid due to the header and I want to wire things on the right, plumbing on the left."

I'd guess the male/female ratio of this forum is over 90 percent and over 21 at least that much, although we try to keep it reasonably PG. I'd also guess that darn near every one of those have experienced an embarrassing physical response in loose fitting clothing out in public at some point in their life.
I'm sorry I offended you, and if you haven't had this experience, I am really sorry.

 

The photo i posted of my T shows that with a short w-pump an alternator can be mounted in a low and tucked in manor. Sure you don't have many Daihatsu's there but you can get a small unit off a small Forklift, i was going to paint mine black to make it less visual but not many notice it where it is. If you need to make a bracket to mount it it's much the same amount of work to mount it in any position. I can take some better pics of mine if you like. JW

 

@26 T Ford RPU, thanks I appreciate it. I think the solution I'm going with will work, is affordable and allow me to move on to other things that need fixing.
While a small modern alt. would be tucked in a bit more, it would require more research for grabbing one from the yard or buying online, mounting (I don't have fabricating assets), messing with the wiring (more research, plus I hope to redo all later in a single shot) and the requirements for this car are very light. I don't want anything I drive to be total loss, but this only needs maybe a 45 amp alt. All the new high amp stuff is unnecessary. Kind of like a performance V8 with a tunnel ram in a sub-2k pound car.
If I'm going to be totally open, I dislike GM alt looks. I much prefer the Mopar alternators with the nice curve and fins. The modern Asian stuff reflects this, so I do like them aesthetically. I'm just trying to fix things as I go with cost, ease, and the KISS principle in mind.

Here's the alt where the mount will place it.

Another view. This is acceptable to me for now. Of all the ways to hang the GM alt on this, I think this works best for my needs and desires. Here is a cross section of many of them on one page.
https://www.srbymichael.com/index.cfm/page/ptype=results/category_id=1288/mode=cat/cat1288.htm
I could paint it black while the thing is apart, but that is for another time. I'd rather get that rusty front spring looking sharp and that fan off the front, which is a big push for this whole exercise!

 

Not trying to break your balls or anything but, did notice your steering column is a little crooked. Maybe you already know or it's just the picture or a bent steering wheel?