SBC starter problems or Hot Rods are cool Customs suck.

My 51 Chevy is fighting me tooth and nail.
I've been so frustrated with it I've at my wits end. Nothing goes easy with this car.
I miss working on my roadster because it was too easy.
OK vent over.

Here’s the problem:
The back starter bolt hole in the V8 Chevy block has been stripped and repaired with a heli-coil. This has ovaled the hole so that the starter kicks out just enough to grind the flex plate after a few starts.
Has any body dealt with this before? I need some suggestions.

 

you could try making a brace for the other end of the starter that bolts to the oil pan rail,came stock on some cars,but i can't remember what...

 

The starter 'kicks out' as in 'they left a bit of helicoil sticking out of the hole, the bolt isn't holding in the helicoil properly, or they changed the shape of the hole so much that the helicoil is physically shifted over from its proper position in the bolt hole? Don't ya hate it when the guy before you couldn't drill a straight hole? And when you say 'back' bolt, do you mean the inside bolt or the outside bolt? On SBC they are in a line and both at the back.

 

[ QUOTE ]
you could try making a brace for the other end of the starter that bolts to the oil pan rail,came stock on some cars,but i can't remember what...

[/ QUOTE ]

We have one on it all ready. thought It would do the trick.

 

I would try and go to the next size bolt - probably a 7/16"

drill out the existing hole with the proper size bit and tapper

then you'll probably have to drill the starter hole for the new bolt.

 

[ QUOTE ]
The starter 'kicks out' as in 'they left a bit of helicoil sticking out of the hole, the bolt isn't holding in the helicoil properly, or they changed the shape of the hole so much that the helicoil is physically shifted over from its proper position in the bolt hole? Don't ya hate it when the guy before you couldn't drill a straight hole? And when you say 'back' bolt, do you mean the inside bolt or the outside bolt? On SBC they are in a line and both at the back.



[/ QUOTE ]

Inside bolt hole.

 

maybe make the front bracket so that it forces the starter in the position you need? are you sure the back bolt is the problem? You may be focusing on it when the problem is something else. You might try swapping in a known good starter. In an extreme case, take an oversize bolt and turn it down with an offset that will force the starter more to one side.

 

Are you using regular bolts, or actual starter bolts with the knurling on them? I had this problem and fixed it by using the "real" starter bolts.

yorg mentioned the bracket for the front of the starter. I might have the GM part number at home. If you need it, PM me to remind me to look it up tonite.

BD31, some SBCs have the 2 starter bolts in a line perpendicular to the crank, others have them at an angle (as viewed from underneath the car., so one is more toward the back than the other. These are referred to as "Staggered pattern" or something like that.

 

A stupid question, but do you have the correct shim(or shims) for the starter? Could the hole be drilled through and a long bolt with a nut be used?

 

Krupanaut. I have the original front starter bracket at home you can have it if it will help out.

 

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do you have the correct shim(or shims) for the starter?

[/ QUOTE ]

My question as well.

Also, my friend related to me the SBC starter probs he had a while back.
They got it to where there were no shims and there were stilll grinding noises when it engaged.

An experienced SBC/rod builder guy told him to hit the starters block mounting surface with a flat file cuz some of the rebuilding outfits managed to end up with the mounting surface hole edges higher than the starter mounting surface and held the starter too far out.

They filed - no more problem.

 

I've had a similar problem before on my 40 ford "custom" I use one of those fancy ministarters and the extra torque tends to loosen the bolts after a season or two of starts.. so the last time I reinstalled I used abit of threadlocker..
also the correct Knurled bolts for the stock starter will do wonders..

 

Ok, thanks for all the suggestions guys. Sorry I was a little rushed in my descriptions (working for the man, ya know).

I have the knurled starter bolts, Shims, I tried the mini starter solution but couldn’t get the case shimmed out enough to disengage the flex plate, could be a ****py part (speedway mini starter).
New stock starter worked good for about 50 starts now I can't get it aligned for nothing.
I've heard of people making brackets to hold the starter from kicking out, anyone have some pics?

I'm also using the stock L-bracket on the back of the starter.

 

Based on your latest reply, it sounds like you should focus on the wallowed-out mounting hole. I couldn't tell from the descriptions if the problem is the "case" hitting the flexplate or the "pinion gear" not disengaging the starter ring?

I believe there is quite a bit of pinion gear throw in the stock GM starter (like close to 0.5"). If the whole starter is getting far enough out of alignment, maybe the pinion gear isn't disengaging properly? Otherwise, with the starter not energized, I doubt it would be rubbing the starter ring. Now, on the mini-starter you tried using, the pinion gear could definitely have been rubbing. Their pinion gear throw is very small, so the face of the gear is never more than a few sixteenths (or thereabouts) away from the starter ring.

Another thought is that maybe your flexplate is warped? When you get the grinding/rubbing/zinging noise, is it constant, or is it in synch with the flexplate rotating? If it's zinging like once per revolution, your flexplate is possibly warped. If it's constant, then again, it points more to the starter getting out of alignment due to the messed up mounting hole.

There was a similar thread back in September... maybe there are some other ideas here:

SBC Flexplate Question Thread

One quick comment on the additional mounting bracket on the front of the stock starter. I'm not sure how rigid this bracket is... seems like it's more of a stress-relief for the main mounting bolts. Bottom line is I don't think it will prevent the starter from "twisting" due to the one ******ed-up mounting hole.

Good luck and keep us posted.
-murph

 

Do you have the right flexplate on your car? They have 2 different flexplates for the sbc. One has 168 teeth and the other has 153.

 

Chevy Trucks use a brace on the starter, I believe...try 80-up C-10's with 305's or 350's...

 

Hey Shaun

Drill and tap to the next size bolt...!

It's really a "BIOTCH" to do this under a car but if you can get it on a Lift it should stop your problems...!!!!

Then sell that pig...! (to me dirt cheap!!)

By the way..., "How far are you on that car...???"

 

Drill and tap sounds like a really solid permanent fix.

You could actually have a stud made with 2 different diameters. You wouldn't need to drill the starter then. If you tap it and give me the dimensions, I'll make a stud for ya.

I have a feeling that someone is about to use the quote ****on.

 

[ QUOTE ]
I have a feeling that someone is about to use the quote ****on.


[/ QUOTE ]

couldn't resist.

 

It is near impossible to drill straight in on the inner hole, unless you have a real long bit and room, That is why there are so many mucked up attempts at fixing the broken inner bolt. Years ago I had a machinist make me some drill guides and spent a sizable amount of money on a reversable anglehead air drill and lefthand bits to repair that problem properly. That doesn't help here.
What I did want to mention was a jerry rigged fix I did once. I had a guy who mostly worked on his own stuff, bring in a chevy pickup with the same screwup mess. As a temporary quick fix I whittled a piece of oak 2x4 to wedge between the block and the starter housing. Two years later it was still working.
Within the last year I saw a great article in Street Rodder or Car Craft about silencing the Chevy starter and it included information on using a half shim. Very good read, I will try and find it. It should be a tech article here as often as the subject comes up.

 

[ QUOTE ]
As a temporary quick fix I whittled a piece of oak 2x4 to wedge between the block and the starter housing.

[/ QUOTE ] i was gonna suggest something like that as a last resort,but was afraid of sounding like i was from Oklahoma...

 

hahaha...I used a 2x4 for probably a year on a sbc in a 68 chevy truck...it had one ear broken off so it didn't bolt so good!!!(No ....it was in Colorado!! )

 

Could you straighten the helicoil and them braze the little open areas on the side(thinking oval hole here) That should keep it in place.

 

I put up with this same problem for a while. What I did is I had the offset bolt hole starter so I just switched to the straight or inline starter, problem solved. Hope this helps.

 

Hey, Dannys alive! We should get together. I think it's time for some foo foo coffee.

 

It is car a manual shift?
Does it have the 168 tooth flywheel?

<font color="red"> IF so. I have the fix. </font>

Find yourself a 57 Chevrolet bell housing. The starter bolts to the bell housing.

Years ago I had a dirt track racer and I got hit from the side, ran over another car and knocked the starter OFF the block. Broke the bolts and flange up. I had a lot of money in machine work on the engine and did not want to lose it. So I used the 57 bellhousing and starter.......and kept on racing the next week.

.

 

Thanks again guys,

Here's the latest update.

Outlaw was over last night to take a look at the ******ed up bolt hole and low and behold, finds a long hair line crack in the brand new starters case. No wonder it's grinding!

We tied a few different starters trying to find one with the straight bolt pattern so the messed up staggered hole wouldn’t come into play, but nothing lined up.

So I could try a different mini starter or sleeve the hole and fix it so a stock style will work.

We decided it makes sense to try and sleeve it so it's fix once and for all.
We'll get back to it this weekend.

 

The right way isn't always the easiest way...!

Up here in the "Tool &amp; Die" belt I picked up a 8 in. long "Skip thread" tap. Not only would it reach between the pan and trany but it also could be used at a high speed...!

See if you can find a "Skip Tread" tap and that should help things along...!

Good Luck...!

Mark

 

All right, got it fix.

Used a threaded insert and sleeved the messed up hole.
Starter bolted right up, no shims, and fires right up perfectly.

Seems like it's holding nice and tight.

Of course the $2 fix worked better than the $120 mini starter.

I'm just glad the frustration of spending my car time on what should be a simple problem, is over.

The 51 is mechanically DONE. Outlaw and the crew at Crush Proof did the king pins last week so all that’s left is cosmetics.

I see a light at the end of the tunnel

Thanks again guys.

 

I think you should change your ***le to "Hotrods and Customs are cool, starter problems ****". Hehe. I love a happy ending. Way to go!

-murph