What's easier? Pulling and rebuilding a simple Flathead V8 or replacing the entire driveline with anything else? I doubt half of the guys that are down talking the Flathead in this application have ever really even driven a Merc with a Flathead. Furthermore I see guys spouting figures like 5 to 7 grand to rebuild a Flatty. WTH??? I say it can be done from $500 to $2500 depending how much fancy stuff you throw in. I have built non- running Flatty's into good runners all along that price range. Pro sbc opinionators love to cloud the issue with outlandish price comparisons. 5 to 7 grand sounds like those individuals would like you to compare a $1500 cratemotor to a custom built multi carbed, aluminum headed Flathead. Not a fair comparison. You asked for opinions so here is mine. Rebuild the Merc Flatty. It's the best version of the Flathead anyway. Don't worry about bling, put your money into solid functionality. Invest in a 12V conversion, go with the best ignition system you can afford, stick with a single carb. I would either adapt a Ford 2100 two barrel of a Rochester 2GC to the stock manifold. The biggest single reason why Flatheads don't compare well in the minds of some people is not because of some defect in the engine, but rather the lack of gears in the transmission. If you could swing a nice T-5 or even a C4 auto with the torque multiplication of the converter you would have a very nice package. Mercury Flatheads come stock with a 4" stroke which is longer than that of most Detroit's big blocks of the 1960's. Flatheads don't make a ton of high rpm horsepower they produce a nice fat torque curve which really works well with an efficient gearbox (especially an O/D on the highway).
Research. I'm guessing you are under 30, watch a lot of TV, read Ol' Skool Rodz, have a lot of tattooz(just like the 50s bro), and don't read the material or talk to any one who was there back then.
This is false, the stock 221 in my `41 will run all day and pass the "pussy footing" street rodders on the interstate. Done it many times.
I don't think it's a stretch at all if after you disassemble and find you have a good block and crank. That $500 could get you rings, brgs and gaskets. In fact I just helped a friend put a Merc in his `51 F1 that was non running before we pulled it down. We mic'd the crank and realized the journals were round and in good shape. The cyl walls were fine, just crosshatched `em with a dingleberry hone. Valve train was in good shape. The engine stopped because of a massive failure of the head gasket due to a loose head. We put in the fresh parts and ran it. Not every engine needs a NASCAR level build. Flatheads were designed to be simple and rugged enough to be able to be repaired simply and economically. When did we lose sight of that?
No machine work was needed? I admit I'm no expert, but still, $500 is a cheap rebuild on ANY engine for a regular joe.
Plus, that is the key, and very unlikely, according to my research. I hear and read craced blocks are the norm, not the excepcion. I'm not a flathead hater, I love 'em, I am just realistic. Prove I can put my three on the road for pennies and make shitloads of power, and I'll give my SBCs, Yblock, and Hemi to the scrap man.
I see lot of ask for opinions here so what the hell I will throw my .02 cents worth in. First lets clear up some of these knot heads statements of Traditional. Having owned a couple of merc's in the days I feel qualified to tell it like it was. More mercs had flattys but a few of us were a little different. First transplant was in 55 was with a pontiac--56 brought a cadilliac 4x4 with 2 x4's. The little cheb's 265 cuin had no balls at all and after all back then it was king of the street stop light to stop light. Never had deep pockets but a huge desire to be fast and different.If I were to do another Merc today it sure as hell wouldnt be a SBC because whats different? Nothing.You have Horsepower options so take a look in some sales books. You can buy HP to HP now days and the Fords are just as cheap HP per HP and any thing out there. Its a matter of shopping and looking.There are places for Cheby's but not in old Mercs.
I jumped in my 40 in April and headed for Austin. The old Flathead hadn't been driven 50 miles total since the 70's! Drove 9 hours down and drove all over Austin for 3 days and 9 hours back in temps ranging from 30 to 95 and didn't have any issues. Don't be afraid of flatheads, they drove them cross country all the time back in the day. SBC's can break to you know!
It was a check out and refresh job. No machine shop work required. It was'nt running due to no compression due to a complete failure of the head gasket. It runs fine now. Ya never know till you check.
Been there, done that, and I've got several T shirts along the way. Why isn't the Flathead engine made any more? It's been over 55 years since one was made, not counting the French flatheads. There's got to be a reason for it. Sort of like steam engine tractors, you don't see them out in the field anymore either, do you? Must be a good reason for it!!! I have yet to be able to go to AutoZone, O'Relies (SP) Pep Boys, or any of the other car stores on the corner and buy a flathead part on a Saturday afternoon. Napa more than likely isn't even open after 5 P.M. Sure back in the 40's people drove from coast to coast in one. But the longevity and reliability sure isn't as good as the modern OHV engines. Why was those old flathead engines forever needing a valve job? Does a OHV constantly need one? And I'm using OHV engines, not specifically the SBC. Why was the ole flathead forever having problems overheating? Sorry Henry Floored, but in one of your posts here, you mentioned all the extra stuff to put on a factory engine...Change the carbs, switch to 12 volt, change the transmission. Hello... Is that original hot rodding? If it is, then why not change out the whole engine to something else? That's traditional... I speak from both sides of the fence. I've built a 30 roadster back in the good ole days, with a Oldsmobile engine, with a Packard 3 speed with overdrive. I've done a 40 coupe with a flathead, 39 Mercury top loader. And I've played with a 29 roadster and 32 coupe with the SBC's. Know what? I liked my ole Flathead, but I could never trust it, even though I had the best of everything done to that engine. What's going to break down, and when. Worse,, where? How many of you know about the old joke, drive a Flathead and carry a tool chest. Drive a SBC and carry and can of polish? One of the determining issues for 2011 and beyond, just how much is this going to cost over all, and what is the "builder/driver" going to do with it after it's through? Another governing issue is the builder/driver's skill level. With all the talk of building up a flathead engine, how many here have a machine shop out back, that they can even do any serious overhaul work on a engine. Even just assembling a engine in the garage, it's not like putting together a swing set. By putting tab A into slot B. How many can really do it? Hmmmm....I'm getting pretty long winded here for an old fart. So I better shut up, and charge up the batteries in my wheel chair and go out for a spin around the rest home. It's up to the owner and his pocket book to decide whether to do a boob job on it and keep it perky, or just leave as is, and let them just sag........ HellRaiser I just happened to remember after I wrote those ramblins above, but some of the words to "She's real fine, my 409" I don't think it's about a flathead. Or Little Deuce Coupe. Hmmmm that didn't have a flathead in it either.
Is this hot rod enough, total investment, complete rebuild included, is about $1900.00, including the carbs and intake. 92 roller cam engine, makes about 275 horse power. Works for me. I've been using SBCs for over 30 years. Best bang for the buck, always a SBC.
Damn. Broke the crank in my Chitty(Sorry,I meant to say Chevy)truck a couple weeks ago. Pulled that poor excuse of a motor out and transplanted an OLDS. Forgot I had that can of polish behind the seat. I guess I should have just polished the fuckin' thing.
I drove my 3500# flatty powered car just this morning. It ran fine, kept up with traffic easily (even exceeded the speed limit )and was not overheating or leaving me stranded on the road with no parts available for it in the northern hemisphere, I am one lucky SOB!
SOMEONE TAKE THE GUY FOR A RIDE........ So on one hand..... Flatheads are simple durable engines, that the problems you hear about are directly from a lack of experience with them by the owner/builder and todays junk Chinese parts. Proper gearing goes along way, and a five speed is nice. I don't know about anyone else but I check my car over before any trip and carry spares. Shit happens bring a roll of paper...... On the other.... It's Merc not a Model A....The low rpm diesel like torque curve is great if you want to pull stumps out of your yard. Watch a flathead at the drags, it comes out of the hole like a champ then it falls on it's ass as it runs out of air and it's torque band. Around town it's really not an issue it would be moving that barge at speed. I've driven a stock 70 365hp 460 with an AOD in a 50 Merc, now that's heathly torque at useable rpm plus overdrive and it was still a dog if you ask me. I like horsepower, something outside of OHV conversions, forced induction, ghost main cranks, EFI, and big dollars that could be spent else where you'll never see with a Flat motor.Getting your doors blown of by minivans is just not cool. Yet, for all the safety sake radial tire, power disk brake, power rack, so called hotrodders I'm amazed having power enough to drive defensively is not looked at as a factor. I've slid a drum brake, Jelly jar, 389 60 Ventura sideways through a four lane pile up in process without a scratch. We drive bias on ice so rain doesn't scare me either. In compairson my Fairlane couldn't peel a grape much less a tire with the 170 and that does. Driving, stopping and passing is just as easy now as it was in 63 until you run into heavy traffic full of distracted, "me first" dumb asses swapping lanes in the central interchange. Being stuck between one Nancy trucker that can't shift and another that refuses to slow down is not a good place to be without the power to get out of the way. Even if you don't want a ground shaker I'd choose anything OHV and American made over a flathead.
<table border="2" cellpadding="2" width="998"><tbody><tr><td width="15%">1950 Mercury</td> <td align="center" width="14%">255</td> <td align="center" width="18%">3.1875 x 4.000</td> <td align="center" width="17%"> </td> <td align="center" width="15%">110</td> <td align="center" width="14%">6.80:1</td> <td align="center" width="10%">24</td> <td width="16%">1,3</td></tr></tbody></table>
255 cid, 110 HP. Oh okay, I see what the fuss is all about, that's a killer engine. @ original poster here... If we could go back in time and interview early Merc guys, they would not be telling us how they are purists and would sooner die than get rid of their stock engines... NO WAY. They'd love to run something different, something with more power. If you had a nice custom Merc in 1958 and could buy a SBC to replace your tired flathead, you'd think about it. The folks on here who are saying a flathead is trad for a Merc, are confusing STOCK with trad. BTW, I had the same background, a Merc is one of my dream cars. I liked the same movies, but also remembered the Hirohata from occasional articles about it over the last 25 years... I remember the "found" blurb by Pat Ganahl or somebody in Hot Rod in the early 90's. Good luck, have fun, start a build thread. If you are also looking for practical vs trad, another more practical one might be a 5.0 Ford like out of a Mustang. Thought about that?
what about all the guys who were building up these stock engines...my grandfather had a customized 50 merc in 59...he had all the money in the world(was in the oil industry) to build a car...any choice of engine he built a flathead always said that he could dust anyone in town with small blocks...he always told me that he wouldnt trade flatheads for anything....I know about 15 local old timers with the same story...building flatheads over other engines...the one local guy gary bought a 50 ford with 331 caddy in it in 65....he ended up pulling the cad engine and putting a flatty back in it....btw the caddy engine is still under his bench all the early speed parts still on it...he was going to scrap it a few years ago i talked him out of that im probably going to get flammed for saying this...sbc is boring and overdone...everyone is going to talk about parts and cost and reliability...i have no problem getting parts locally most guys travel with parts anyhow no matter what engine you have...and as far as reliability i have friends that drive cross country all the time with flatheads...i have 5 flatheads in my garage now everything from bone stock...mild built flattys and a 304ci stroker flathead...also own/have owned small block and big block cars, nailhead cars, early hemi cars, and early cad cars....flatheads are all around the best in my book....i refuse to build any car fromnow on without one....and honestly i have found that most people who have all these opinions about flatheads have never owned one...everyone is an expert on stuff they have no experience with
Two words in your post stand out. Grandfather and old timers. Perhaps they were just going with what they knew best. Flatheads may look cool, but stuck in BFE looking for parts? Not cool.
The only good motor is a rebuilt motor.........Yeah lets buy a junkyard motor and waste the time........ Of installing the motor and it ends up being junk that never happens.....You get what you pay for...............
nah my grandfather was a mechanic had about 10 garages when he was going strong...then bought a company got in the oil business....same time he had the 50 merc he had a 56 Porche, a fiat, and a 36 auburn this was in 58 when that stuff was still around....he wrenched on all of them himself...he just loved flatheads...that 50 was his all time favorite car...just gonna put it this way one of my friends has a 49 ford with a flatty in it..he rebuilt the engine in 88 and has driven it 80,000 miles never once been stranded or broken down...only problem he ever had was a coil go bad in the holiday inn parking lot in atlanta...but he had 2 small blocks crap out one a brand new crate motor that the oil pump failed and ruined the engine...the other a rebuilt one in an ot camaro...that snapped a crank at about 1000 rpms... gary is a dirt track guy whos in his 70s and still races(sbc)...he built engines in the 70s for Nascar also sbc...but all the classics he owns are flatheads...people who have them lovem and once you own one you dont want anything else id rather be stuck in the middle of bfe with a flathead then be anywhere with a sbc...I say this owning a 53 chevywith a sbc and a 50 suburban with a big bblock in it...I am embarassed to own both
Have to add my $.02, since you inquired. Just had our '53 flatty rebuilt a year ago by a guy that's been building them since the 50's. I bought about $1,600 worth of parts or so and he built it for $600. And she's a beauty, bored 30 over! What a cool-assed engine for around $2,000.00! Just find a guy to build it, parts aren't THAT expensive. I could even dig my parts list u[ if you wanted a price comparison sheet. I've got it all on an excel spreadsheet. Every part, from where I bought it, and what it's cost was.
$2000 thats awesome i love stories like that it pays to shop around....i know an oldtimer here who i just met that does that...with i woulda found him earlier...but he showed me his 52 and the flathead in that runs so smooth you can balance a standing nickel on it when its running and it doesnt move...old timers are awesome... around here a basic sbc rebuild is $2500...a stock rebuild on a Flathead all parts and labor is around $3500 worst case..custom flattys are different
The Jalopy Journal
