SBCs, Ryan's editorial and an old farts perspective.

I am 60 this year. Been loving hot rods since elementary school. When I was in high school, small block Chevies were not common in wrecking yards yet and when you found one it was high buck. But the competitive racers were running them to win. There wasn't any such thing as Nostalgia racing yet except for the Model T guys and their hill climbs. The racers and bucks up hot rodders were starting to use the SBC a lot and you could get really good quality flathead speed goodies for cheap and sometimes free. Edelbrock, Sharp, Eddie Meyer Hollywood, Edmunds, Thickstun heads, Kong Jackson mags, intakes of all types, Potvin cams, Schnieder clutches and flywheels, all for a song and a good story. Well, my folks were pretty broke and they also believed that a kid should buy his own car without help, because that way he'd treat it like he knew what it took to get money. That pretty much described the Barons of South Antelope Valley too. So we hung around anyone who was upgrading to the Chevy and swapped labor, sweeping up and generally being the human gunk brushes, for the old "worthless flathead go-fast stuff". One of the Barons, Richard Slatter, was a natural flathead genius and he used to whip up on the rich kids cars with his ol' '38 Standard. The only guys who beat him on the Avenue N street drags were the guys who sold us the flatty "Junk".

So, after wading through that flatty story above you're wondering what this has to do with the SBC editorial. Right? Well, now the good cheap stuff is for the SBC. The guy with the meager budget has the SBC as his way to beat the high buck cars. And the SBC gets disrespected as a traditional power plant? Tradition and history is all in how you want to see it. The operational words are WANT TO. Hot rodders and low budget racers are not finding flatheads in junk yards anymore. And vintage speed equipment is priced like Rolls Royce restoration parts.

One man's ceiling is another man's floor.

Thank's for the use of the soapbox, Ryan

 

Oh. and now that I'm an old grey beard with a good job, I'm spending STUPID money on vintage Olds stuff. But don't start on me, I don't wear gold chains.

 

Great story and point! I just wanted to
know if the Ave N. you were refering to racing down, was
Palmdale's Ave N. since you live in So. Cal. Just wondering.

 

Phil, you are the same age as my pop. He would love to sit down over a cold one with ya...hell, so would I!

SBCs rule, posers wont admit it.

 

I worked at a gas station and had a 50 ford.A customer opend his trunk and had 3and4x2 manifolds finned heads all kinds of flathead goodeys for 20.00 each.Had to pass it up out of my price range as im in your age group.Dam I would like to run into that guy now.But then again i also passed up a 55T bird for 12.000 dollars OH if we could go back.

 

Very sensible point of view, very well put.

 

Having read that, I must agree with the SBC thoughts. In my honest opinion the SBC is an icon. No other engine has dominated every class of racing it's been entered in. While some may truely belive it's not cool, well there must be an unlimited number of "what's cool" viewpoints. The fact that there are so many motors and parts available for the thing should speak volumes as to it's value and desirability.

I personally think that a SBC with old style induction of any kind is as about as kool as it can get, but also see the desire to go back further. Hemis? Well I don't get it. Yes they too have their own "auora" but lately it seems every new big dollar "traditional" hot rod has one. My personal idea of a kool hemi is a 417 Donovan in the rails of a Tom Hanna wrapped dragster, or maybe a AA/FA. For racing I hate the SBC. Too easy to do a BBC and get mega cubes and power. But that's that fucked up logical conclusion I seem to come to. The old 54 Chev PU has a 350 in it already. Talk about an icon motor, how many of those are around, huh? Why the hell not leave it in there and play. Yes I'd like to do a 348 tri power for it, but I really think that $ can go elsewhere and why waste the looks under the hood of the old truck? Now once me gets me hands on that 59 elky...but that's a ways away for me.

Thanks to Ryan and Chill Phil for your thoughts, and for hearin mine.

 

...good post Phil...nothin' wrong with old chevies...

 

I can understand the need to be different.... but I can also understand the need to be cheap and reliable.

 

I want to here more about the engine in that 'Vette.

 

The SBC became traditional almost instantly--I'd say the automotive press and grapevine ridiculed it for about a week: Too small, silly pieces of tin working the valves, throwaway design...
Then everyone on the planet suddenly noticed that the thing put out way more per advertised HP than anything else on the road, would rev to the moon and obviously was ready for lots more breathing equipment up top, and that it would eat anything else with same supposed power alive.
NHRA had to start factoring stocker HP ratings because of this engine, and eventually banned the light early SBC cars from stock classes to allow modern cars to compete!
Boom. They were actually SCARCE for several years--wrecked ones sold from the junkyards before they were cool enough to touch for prices near new motors and crate engines and long blocks flew out of the parts departments as fast as they were made available. Small blocks were actually fairly hard to get up to 1960 because demand exceeded the rate of wrecking!
The same cycle repeated as 283, 327, and 350 were introduced--ferocious scramble for the new goodies. Cylinder head and induction changes in '57 and '64 and later through numerous over the counter heads produced mini parts races. Olds and Cad stock plummeted at the junkyard and in used speed equipment sales, the Y-block disappeared from consideration, and everyone discovered that the thing was dimensionally an exact replacement for a flathead.
It was the new belly-button motor for the same excellent reasons the flathead was before it--the SBC was the spiritual heir to the flathead without doubt.

 

if you want to be cool you hate SBC

if you want to go fast, you dont. period.

 

Damn Phil you're as old as my big sister. She's only owned 3 cars in her entire life all of them she bought new.
But I on the otherhand understand totally where you are comming from, I'm the black sheep in the family. 9 years after you and SBCs other than 283s and 265s were just out of reach for the average do it or buy it yourself kid.
I could afford flathead stuff and or find it free, and I liked the hell out of 'em. but I was partial to Ford Y blocks, they were also cheap as were speed parts for them. Ford mills were also not popular. Today I'm still playing with the unpopular stuff, let the main streamers be damned.

 

Phil, I've got a few years on you and feel about the same. I remember the year the flathead died (competively speaking) and mourned the loss. my love of HEMI'S didn't come from the fifties (only saw two in hot rods with them) the Olds, Buicks & Cads were by far the most popular swaps and had more cubes and horsepower than the smaller chevs. I never really saw any advantage to the small block chev's till I built one in 1962.
I think the Chev nostalgia debate ought to start with the 350 cube motors that came out in 68 ? 265-283-327 earned there spot in history
As far as crate motors go they were available just expensive. there is no right answer just more questions eh!

 

I still don't understand how hating one of that great mechanical design makes you cool, but then I've never never understood people that hate a certain type of car or company. I'm not too partial to some mopar stuff but that stems from a bad experience trying to change a set of headers that the tubes actually wrapped around the suspension on a challenger. That's just me, don't hate mopar just don't want to change those gawldanged headers again.

I love cars, I love motors.

You wanna talk cool points? The 283 in my 60 Bel Air started every morning, no matter the conditions. It kept spinning long after it should have stopped shoving that big car down the freeway. I'm going to be starting my new SBC for the first time tonight, same car but this time a 350, I hope it treats me as well as the 283.

I love the Buick 350, I wiped out a cam halfway between Tulsa and Dallas drove the sob home to Tulsa after an oil change, changed the cam & lifters and went racing.

I had a Ford 351W that my dad and I built that could have pulled stumps and wound up stuffed in 6 different cars, the unbreakable motor. Something magical about that mill. (BTW one of the bodies that motor was in was a GM)

These are just a few of my fond motor memories, all types of cars, all types of motors.

 

The very first ride I ever got in a hot rod was with an older kid, in a primered '32 Ford coupe with a SBC, in Palmdale Ca., around 1958. He tried to scare the crap out of me; he almost succeeded! I remember that old '38 Standard. He came through Pearblossom one day right after a light rain and was tearing up the dirt roads. Looked like loads of fun. Later, I did the same thing in my mother's '54 Buick. It was loads of fun! Are we really sixty this year? My, how the time and the booze can fog your mind!

pigpen

 

I LOVE IT! The smallblock Chevy is the new flathead!!! -stick
Tradition? Bah!

 

good point phil! i understand the love of nostalgia but, i also think if phil and his buddies could have had IFS, rack n pinnion steering, disk brakes, etc for cheap back then they would have! i just don't get the animosity about that stuff! i met a guy about a year ago in his mid 50's driving a billet laiden, fiberglass 32 roadster. he pulled in to the parking lot of my work, i went over to see what the silver topped gold chainer was all about. turns out he grew up piss poor, had been scrounging up pieces on the cheap for 15 years, and built that thing in his garage with a buddy. so does the billet, and fiberglass make him less of a hotrodder than me? I DON'T THINK SO! it's all about the love of _______ ( <insert your preferance) , and the willingness to bloody your knuckles, piss off your wife, and commit the time to build what you want, and can afford!

 

I suspect that most of the young guys who want oddball motors in their cars never actually get the car built enough to use and I am positive that very very few can use the oddball motors on a continuing basis. I am talking about daily use for several years. After all, isnt that the point of having a cool car? I have a sbc 400 that I ran 17 years and its waiting a rebuild. I have been running sbc in my truck for 14 years so far. I have seen some of the young guys on the HAMB drooling over a flathead straight eight Buick, but Really! Who would want one of those! Only someone with a lot of money but no common sense.

 

dog tags and polyesther? nice rant.

 

Haha. That's awesome. I can't imagine where on Avenue N you're talking about, beacause its all populated now. Back in "my day" (about 10 years ago) the street drags were on Avenue G. Now I hear people are going clear out to mojave to race.

I liked reading your comments. You always give things some much needed perspective. Thanks.

 

ya if i had the money i'd be building a hillborn injected 392 hemi! instead i'm running a bassicaly stock '68 440. not a sbc, but not a "hot rod motor" by most standards.

 

I have a 392 that I ran about 10 years, I'd love to have a blower for it but its hard to justify that much money on something that already has awesome power. I'm sure its a different story for those wealthy enough to build 1000hp engines.

 

My Dad was a Hot Rodder in the 50's and according to him everybody wanted a smallblock Chevy after they came out. Another observation, Zora Arkus Duntov had a huge part in designing the smallblock Chevy, it almost seems like it was made to fit in a Ford chassis? oh yea and he had a little to do with ArDun!

 

The word Tradition comes fron the Latin word 'Traditio' which means '' to hand down '' or '' to hand over '' A custom or pratice taught by one generation to another. I guess the Chevy is traditional to me because of the time I grew up in. My dad taught me about them and I have taught a few people about them. I guess what I`m getting at is what`s traditional to my age group. isn`t going to be to the younger set or the older ones. I personally like the Chevy, as I have had many that I have strobed to the realm of impossible odds of living. But now don`t get me wrong, I love pretty much all mechanical things, be it a Flatty, Hemi, etc. I loved my old 54 Harley because ''I GOT TO'' work on it all the time, which belive it or not I really liked to do. I look at some of the ''modern engines'' and think are these going to be traditional in 40-50 years? I would have to say yes!

 

. I personally like the Chevy, as I have had many that I have strobed to the realm of impossible odds of living. But now don`t get me wrong, I love pretty much all mechanical things, be it a Flatty, Hemi, etc. I loved my old 54 Harley because ''I GOT TO'' work on it all the time, which belive it or not I really liked to do. I look at some of the ''modern engines'' and think are these going to be traditional in 40-50 years? I would have to say yes![/QUOTE]

yup, i hear that! i pretty much love anything that burns gas, and tires!!!!!!

 

chili good read.

i have my prefrences for engines in street cars... but in competition you just cant beat the dollars to horsepower figures a chevy has...not to mention parts availibilty. it is the base reasoning of why ill be running a BBC over a HEMI in my race car...

 

I was one of the posers about nostalgia and "screw SBC" until I fought through the teardown of 2 Rockets in crappy shape, couldnt justify the $ to redo 1 good motor out of em, and ended up going SBC. The car is now owned by another HAMBer and for a big ol 55 Olds 80mph on the highway and a quick tap on the gas...lets ya know its got plenty more. Prolly go for a million miles with little hit in the wallet for upkeep.

 

LOL,,,I can't disagree with success. The sbc is in-fact a diamond in the rough where engines are concerned and have earned their place in history. But way too many people use them, and have since I started drag racing in 1956, to make them attractive to me. I built one or two and they really had power for their weight. However, once a Ford nut, always a Ford nut. Way back when I once had a 55 Ford 2 door with an all out 312 Yblock in it. 2x4's with paxton super charger, Howards full race cam, headers, the works. That little Yblock would scream at 7K rpm and never got beat by any damn chevy. Well, one day I came upon a bone stock, off the show room floor El Camino. Sheeeeet man, it smoked me big time. Come to find out, it had one of them new fangled 409's with tri-power and four speed. Now this really pissed me off, but I shook it off since it was a really big engine ....409 not a sbc. Well double sheeeeet man, no more than a few days later I came upon a 55 chevy that sounded really good. Lots of rumble to the idle and incredible throttle response. We went at it and damned if I didn't loose to a sbc. Now that sucker had 6x2's, a wild isky roller cam and a bunch of stuff he wouldn't tell me about, but it was still a damn sbc. That did it. I went right home, built a 361 Edsel (yes an Edsel) out to 428 CI using M/T's newest Ford stuff to include 12.8 to one pistons which were unheard of in those early years, put on a Weiand 6x2 set up, Isky roller cam, Scheifer clutch and bolted her in place of the 312 Yblock. Damn was that car fast then. I found that 55 chevy with the sbc and got my revenge. They guy with the El Camino wouldn't race me again, the damn coward. The biggest problem I had with that Edsel engine was the 12.8 to one. The starter just had great difficulty turning it over. I went through about a million starters. Finally got rid of the 56 and put the engine in a rail. All this just to say that sbc's are good, but boring.

 

60 Huh? Me too, this year (Sept.) sheesh. I&#8217;ve been a Fordoholic all my life, always shouted out FLATHEADS FOREVER!! I grew up in the San Fernando Valley and remember all the old bone yards in Sun Valley. We had a Merc that would eat starters so we would go over to our favorite place, Bens Obsolete Ford Parts. He had a mountain of flat motors that was in the center of the yard ready for scrap and he would let us take anything we wanted for $10. I guess that should have told me something about the future of the old Ford V8 then, but I was bound and determined to be different. Yep, me and my buddies would get our doors blown off regularly by SBCs but that didn&#8217;t matter, we kept trying. We had one of our group that had a Caddy and another that had an early Hemi. They were bitchen but, damn, they weren&#8217;t Ford!! Over the years I&#8217;ve pretty much stuck by the Fords; flatheads, Y-blocks, FEs etc. I have had an affair or two with the Hemi. Shoot, I&#8217;ve got a 331 extended bell housing that I&#8217;ve got ready to put in the Kornbinder. But to tell you the truth, the vintage SBC that I have in the truck has been so reliable, I hate to change it out. Oops!I didn&#8217;t say that, Uh&#8230; the truck belongs to my wife. Yeah that&#8217;s it. Not meaning to steal the thread but while we&#8217;re on the subject of old farts, did any of you HAMBers hang out at or remember Bill Nortons Valley Obsolete Ford Parts?