Hey all, I finshed a 1964 Ford Ranchero a few months back that overheats at idle. The engine/trans is a 302/C4 out of a 1970s car that had been rebuilt at some point. The bottom end looked good but the heads were junk(rocker studs). The customer elected to go with some Edelbrock E street aluminum heads and their Pro Flo port injection system. It has a ColdCase Aluminum Radiator with a 14" mechanical fan. It also has vintage A/C with a decent sized condenser in front of the radiator. Standard aluminum water pump with a 180F thermostat. While driving around normally temps are around 190F but when stopped for longer then 10 minutes it will reach 220F and keep climbing. I have checked all the obvious things like head gaskets as well as different thermostats and even removing it all together. A shorty water pump to run an electric fan is an option however that involves changing the serpentine setup. I think a high volume water pump may solve the problem. Fords are not my specialty so before I start throwing more parts at it I thought I would ask around as this seems like an abnormal problem. Any help is appreciated. Thanks
Are you sure the water pump impeller is turning the correct direction with the belt system? I’d check that first.
It is a standard rotation water pump part number GMB 1251230AL. The fan is turning the correct direction and verified with the rag test.
Ignition timing off, are you sure TDC on the damper is actually TDC on cylinder #1? Ford has three positions for TDC on the damper so you need to have the correct damper and pointer. Some timing chain covers have the pointer cast in and I believe you can buy a bolt on pointer for the other. Also if using the original damper pull it **** can it and buy a new one, if it hasn’t slipped already it will. I might be incorrect on this but if I remember correctly the small block Ford head gaskets have a front and rear and a this side up. But I can’t recall if it caused a leak or a blockage if installed backwards, maybe both. You don’t have the fan/fans on backwards or running backwards.
I will recheck timing. The car runs great and starts immidiately every time, I think if anything the timing is slightly advanced. I do not have a great way of checking timing due to alternator location but I will figure out a better way. Retarded timing will make it run hot correct?
When idling and running hot check at the back of each head for temperature. If one is hotter than the other, that head gasket is on backwards. The large end opening in the gasket is supposed to be at the back.
I don’t know much about serpentine systems but putting a smaller pulley on the water pump will speed it up when idling and fixed my Ford problem. To test it. Start cold, **** out an inch of coolant, start the engine, watch the temp gauge, watch for movement of the coolant when you are sure the thermostat is open, if you see none or very little raise the idle about 100 rpm, if you see good movement now, your water pump needs to spin faster at idle.
So it doesn't overheat under load when driving, but it overheats setting still. Shure sounds like an air flow or coolant flow problem at low rpm.
I have checked head gasket orientation and the tabs are visible at the front of each head. I have not checked the back of the heads but will next time I work on the car. I will add that my Milwaukee M18 blower will keep the temp stable at idle, but that is a lot of airflow and doesn't seem like the normal amount to keep an engine this size cool. This is why I am leaning towards a high volume water pump, or perhaps just a better water pump.
Devil is in the details, so to be clear, you installed the heads and head gaskets for the customer? The head gaskets were checked how? When installed? Since been pressure tested or chemically check for combustion gases? You have inspected and personally seen the clear p***age of the inside face of the rad behind the condenser? A light will p*** through? Know the inside condition of the rad? It was new or used previously? Has it burped up the green stuff or just gotten hot? And you mention it was a few months back so this is a recent event or an on going issue? Just because it's clean doesn't mean it is, pressure washing turns dust into mud and that mud obstructs air flow. Maybe as suggested it is a busted impeller in the pump and all it does is nothing but sit there. Thermostat not opening? Your recent comment would suggest a rad that's plugged either inside or through the fins? But I don't know?
The heads and everything else is new and has been installed by me. The car came to me as a roller. The short block is sort of the unknown however everything checked out ok.
Someone will say if this is wrong or not but don't the fan blades need to stick out of the shroud about half way so the air just doesn't get trapped in the shroud?
Hello please I THINK on a computer controlled motor with an ecu that features AIR CONDITIONING AC the clutch on the air con pump does NOT disengage at idle however there is a pin on the ecu WOT CUT that DOES disengage the air con pump when you are moving along with air flowing through SO WHAT - i hear you say well i then say, there is ALSO another pin on a typical ECU computator for FAN 2 i.e. there are two speeds for an electric fan 'or maybe 2 fans' on them there cars SO what at idle, when the motor is getting hot the fan has 2 speeds fan2 is spinning faster than fan 1 you know when you walk away from your modern car on a hot summers day and the fan seems like it is going faster and appears noisier, anyways, you have a solid fan that doesnt even have a viscous coupling and IF that radiator is about the same size as the 6 cylinder mustang and the other car the mustang is based on the radiator is tiny. you say you have a 14'' mechanical fan - so your rad is a mere 14 inches wide i say no to that. i say 16 inch fan and a much wider radiator
The engine you say is a 70s 302, which encomp***es 70-79. Ford made a change to the coolant p***age orientation in the block somewhere around 1976, requiring steam holes to be drilled in the block when using those heads. The Edelbrock instruction sheet shows where to drill the holes.
Looking at your pic of engine; The fan your using is a **** design< poor blades that do not move air well/blade is not wide enough or even shaped like good fan. The upper rad hose looks like it dose not have a spring in side { top hose normaly dose used a spring anyway} / I see top shows kinked a bit/ if bottom hose is that way at all,then bottom hose is a prob.=it will partly close when running down the road ,bottom is a **** hose{ top hose,how ever, is not likely to do same,it just flow. How many core is rad? Just ideas.
That fan is trash and it’s too far inside the shroud, you have a big time air flow problem. Get a real fan and only have 50% or so of the blade tips covered by the shroud so the air has somewhere to go.
Is 230F overheating. This is read from ECU Coolant temp sensor as well as temp gun. the radiator in the car currently is meant for a 302, it is a large 2 core radiator. https://www.coldcaseradiators.com/p...o-aluminum-performance-radiator?sku=FOM564A-5 I followed the instructions and drilled holes in the deck of the block for steam. The fan has since been changed to a 14" Texas Twister fan. All good replies but I have checked what seems like pretty much everything. I was hoping someone with actual experience putting a sbf in a falcon/comet/ranchero of this era would chime in.
Might try a vacuum gauge connected to manifold vacuum and adjust timing to see what the engine likes at idle.
I've had trouble with those Ricky racer low resistance fans like you had on it in the first post on my rings when they didn't pull enough air at low speeds because they are designed to have less resistance under hard acceleration or high speed than a fan with real blades on it that is designed to pull a lot of air. My 48 is a prime example because even with a Radiator for a 2 ton that is about twice as big as one for a 1/2 ton capacity wise the temp went from 183 running down the road (180 thermostat) to 220+ at a light and then dropped right back down after I hit 20 mph or so.
If it’s good running down the road but gets hot at idle,check the intake gaskets again. Bet there in backwards
I tried a fan similar to this once for maybe a week. I gave it to a friend and he had it blow apart on him.
My 29 p.u. had a 73 302 was overheating, Flushed the Engine/Radiator . Radiator coolant looked great, but the coolant from the engine looked like thick rusty water. Never had a heating problem after the Flush.
derale 16 in fan 1/3 in shroud ( had same problem with 302 in 35 ford) fan and shroud fixed it instantly
I had a 260 powered '64 Falcon Sprint in the early '70's. The 260 finally failed so I installed a fresh 289 in its place. Everything was new in the engine and it ran hot, mostly problems at speed but if idled too long it would heat up. Basically if it ran for 30 minutes it would get to 230-240 degrees. Tried new fans, etc. but finally fixed it by making the radiator out of a '62 Dodge fit. I'd spent so much money on the engine and transmission that at the time I couldn't afford a new stock 4-row radiator. 10 years later it was a rebuilt 302 in a Willys 4-wheel drive wagon, same thing. Except that it was very bad crawling up a washed-out logging road at 5-10 mph. Tried everything with that one; new 4-row radiator, different fans, made a fan shroud and installed an electric fan in front of the radiator. Nothing worked so I finally installed an oil cooler and just let the coolant temp. do what it wanted... 20 years later it was an OT early Mustang with a 289. Same thing, you could drive it for 20-30 mins. and then you'd have to shut it off and let it cool down. Installed a fan shroud, no change. Fixed that one with a new reproduction 4-row radiator. In my experience small block Fords just tend to run hot... put the biggest radiator in it that you can and good luck.
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