Ive been doing some reading online about building a 302 for my new non HAMB friendly car. I have a source for most of the casting numbers but im a little lost on the proper crank and rods to use. I allready have a 67 327 motor to use for this but i need to know what else i need. O and where do i find a 30/30 solid lifter cam that the 302's ran... Thanks Bryan
Ha Ha...never mind the 350 route I suggested, eh?! Check it out... http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=72531
Hey Fat Hack, thanks for the link. Interesting discussion. I read the whole 4 pages of that thread and I'm still confused!! So basically, to build a 302 you need a 327 block and a 283 crank. Then you have to get pistons with a different pin height and a cam and yadda yadda.... Why bother? If you've already got a 327, why go backwards in cubic inches. The 327 will rev to 8000 all day... The only reason GM downsized was to race in trans-am.... I'd stick with the 327 and change the decals...
For a crank it looks like you'll want a 3.48 inch stroke, look for a forging id number "1182". FOr part numbers 3941180 is a pre 1986 crank forged in 1053 alloy steel. You can get a heat treated version 3941184 also. For connecting rods if you have 2" journals part number 14096846 are high performance. These are the factory GM performance parts, for, say your building a SCCA car. A buddy of mine who races a firebird gave me a book called Chevrolet Power petty good information a building a factory race engine.
That's a forged 350 crank. To make a 302 (or 301, as the hot rodders called it when they did it), you need a '62-'67 327 block and a 283 crank. '68- 69 large journal 3 inch stroke cranks are quite expensive.
No ... and Yes ... sort of ... The #3849847 crankshaft is a small journal 283 unit. When installed into a 327 4 inch bore block ... it makes the 327 into a 301/302 Mortec has a listing of Chevy crankshaft numbers http://www.mortec.com/cranks.htm
I agree with the 327 choice. Punch it to 331 and don't look back. Unless you need the size for class racing, the 331 will rip the retinas outta yer eyes when prepped right. Grumpy jenkins was routinely pulling over 700HP from that size engine in 70s pro stock trim. Whatever you choose to do have fun and good luck with it.
That's my thinking on it, as well...I say the same thing everytime some genius robs a crank out of a 400 to build a 383...giving up 17 cubes to do what every OTHER dope is doing! I'm pretty sure Dirty has a small journal 327, but if it were the large journal version, I'd recommend dropping in a 350 or early 305 crank and a set of 350 pistons. The car has a TH-400 tranny and probably 3.08 gears or so. For a highway friendly combo that's still plenty of fun around town, a 350 (or a 400!) would fill the bill nicely here. The 302 would gain him some revving ability, but give up useable torque...something this car NEEDS! The 327 can be made to work really well, too...given a smart cam choice, new intake (it's got a single plane Holley on it now) and the right carb and distributor choices. The 327's 3.25" stroke coupled with it's 4" bore make it a good compromise right between the screaming 302 and the torquey 350. In a 67 Camaro, a mild 327 will work out well. (I'd still give it newer heads with 1.94" valves and hardened valve seats since The Boss will be driving this car almost daily through the nice weather months! It'll need to be able to perform around town and on the highway using unleaded pump gas, so I'd shoot for about 9:1 compression or even slightly less with a torquey cam, dual plane intake, spreadbore carb, HEI...and it'll make her happy!) Of course, a newer 350 in good running order with the same basic formula (mild cam, dual plane intake, etc) would probably be quicker, easier and cheaper...but the 327 could do the job nicely if it were freshened up and brough into the modern era! That former thread I posted a link to had lots of information in it, but Fab32 nailed the important facts regarding the 302 engines as they came from Chevrolet. Before that, people just bored their 283s out and called 'em 301s, a classic vintage combo that could still be fun in a light car with tall gears!
Hey Bryan, I agree with what everyone else has said... With a 3.08 gear, don't give up any torque at all, you're gonna need it. Plus do you realize how long it will take to hit 8000 rpm with a 3.08? So, I'd build a 327 at the smallest, but like Greg said, a 350 based engine will work that much better. I'm in the "parts collecting" stage of building another motor for the '55. I NEED something that will rev, but I have a 5.13 gear and a 3500 convertor. I've opted to go with a 377, which is a de-stroked 400 (350 crank in a 400 block). I'm running a forged GM crank (1182X), Scat 4340 cap-screw rods (6"), lightweight forged flat tops, and a factory "509" block with ARP hardware and short-filled water jackets. I am running angle plug 200cc Dart "Iron Eagle" platinum series heads (I could use a little bigger intake runner, but these will still run pretty good) with lightweight 2.02/1.60 valves and 64cc chambers. I haven't committed to the cam yet, but I'm looking at the Lunati "Voodoo" series, mostly the largest flat tappet in the series that they offer for a SBC (which I plan to couple with Comp beehive springs and Ti retainers), but I'll have one custom ground with a 4/7 swap. So, this makes me ask: Why in the hell would you run a 40+ yr old cam design??? All other things being equal, you could make WAAAAYYYY more power with a modern cam, and get better economy to boot! With the setup I'm looking at, I'll likely end up shifting around 7600-7800rpm, which will be here NOW when I step on the pedal; and it should be an honest 450hp or so... If you have any questions, or need a hookup on parts, you know how to get a hold of me!
That's another excellent point! This being 2006, I'd be looking at the best hydraulic grinds that the current cam companies have to offer for this (or any other!) motor. Lunati offers a few cams that would be excellent for this project, both in their mildest "VooDoo" offering, and even their smallest "EFI" grind. I've really come to like what Lunati offers lately...looking at their various SBC offerings, they have a few cams to pick from for a combo like this. That's not to dismiss often overlooked cams such as the Comp Cams X-treme 4x4 series if you want a real torquey cam, and Crane has a couple comparable sticks as well. Take advantage of the latest developments in camshaft research and design and build a combintion that will drive like you want it to, rather than a collection of outdated components that sound cool in a bench racing session, but don't live up to what you REALLY want that car to do! Steve...cool to see the old 377 motors making a comeback these days! There were guys around here running those back in the 80s (usually in Vegas and Monzas) and I always thought it was a sensible package for a high winding, big bore small block! Can't wait to see how that ol' 55 runs with the new mill!!!
It was a thought. my motor is a small journal 3858174 is the casting. Id really like to do something with it but the ole lady wants me to go fuel injection on it
The x-treme comp cams series would make a fine choice as well. My dad is running a x-treme 274 in the 350 in his 34 chev. Has tremendous mid range and an awsome sounding idle. Car works well with a 2500-2800 stall converter even though he is running 3.25 gears right now. He can't wait to replace them with some 3.90 gears.
350 with a TPI ala mid/late 80s! That'd be perfect for her to drive everyday! (Plenty of torque, easy starting, decent fuel economy, easy to retrofit, etc...)
Sounds dumb to me... ...and I'm half retarded!! So are 383's.. there's a lot of shit you CAN do, but not all of those things are good ideas.
302 are great running motors but only behind a 4 speed, they are pretty much dead behind a automatic. I had one in a camaro both ways, with a 4 speed first then a turbo 400. The motor seemed like a scared little kid behind the turbo 400. You have had some good info listed already, the original was a small journal 327 block using a 283 crank (4in. bore x 3in. stroke). It used 5.7 pink rods, double hump heads, and a huge domed piston. It ran a solid lift cam that is still available from comp cams in a nostalgia grind. The engine was rated a an underrated 290hp. but was said to be closer to 350hp. The only reason it was created was like was said before, to compete in TA racing. A nice built 327 can run off and leave these engines. Remember that the '65 vette had a available 375hp. 327 that was a lot of small block back then. It all depends on the kind of driving that you want to do, if its going to be a drag car then worry about horsepower (small stroke engines) if it is going to be a daily driver and something you may want to race every now and then focus on torque (longer stroke engines). The best torque small block to build is a 400 with the 3.75 stroke and a 6.0in. rod it can dominate.
So here is what I was thinking.....(oh shit) I have a high nickle 400 block fresh but needs punched 30 to clean up. and I am getting a 265 out of a 55 sedan. I read an article where some machine shops can and do rejournal the block for smaller crank journal sizes. So why not put the 265 crank into the 400 block. and run 6 or 6.125 rods in it to keep the pistons up. Won't have a ton of torque but should scoot right along in a light rod size car. I even have a set of camel back heads already drilled with steam holes. Any thoughts?
The problem with the 400 was that the bores would wear fast because of the short rod ratio thats why the factory 5.5 rod would have the engine rebuilt in the first 40,000. Increasing the ratio with a 5.7 or 6.0 rod will cure that problem but using a 265 crank you may run into a problem even if you run a 6.0 or longer rod. The next question would be can you find pistons for this procedure and will the short stroke with the big bore help you out any. As far as having the block to accept the small journal crank, I have never seen that done, but that does not mean that its hasnt been done before. You can have the main journals welded up and ground down to fit in the 400 block but that will get very expensive. Also this may sound funny but if the 400 is a 4 bolt then dont waste your time on it, the main webbing in a 400 4 bolt is way to thin for a performance application. The 400 2 bolt is the only small block that is stronger than the 4 bolt version. Thats my 2 cents
Build a 400 with 5.7" rods and TRW forged pistons. With a set of good heads and a good stiff hydralic camm you end up with an easy 450-500hp. The last one I built with a set of Edelbrock Victor heads, and 10.7:1 compression, with a big solid camshaft, and a tunnel ram with 2 4's made 602hp. With less intake and smaller headers, it would be an easy 550hp motor on pump gas.
It is a 2 bolt and since it is going to be special machined anyways I am gonna put splayed caps on it ( my father-in-law is a machinist and might have hime make up the caps) as far as pistons go Ross will make any piston you want or can dream of so that isn't a problem either. only problem is MONEY. How much do you want to spend to go fast? I was figuring about the same as Rick. a little over 450-HP and it wont last very long but should be under the 350ci mark. so it would still be the small block class motor
Thats cool, sounds like you have played it out already, if your father-in-law is a machinist then you got the most expensive part out of the way. Build on.....
Not exctly what you are tlaking about but Hot Rod did and interesting build of and essentially new chevy 302, with a blower. They were looking for 550 horse power and 23 mpg. Makes for an interesting read. http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/43938/index.html
Stock 1967 302 rods are GM part number 3864881. Stock std bore piston assy (piston, floating pin and retainer) GM PN is 3946876. I have a complet new set of both in the old GMPD boxes for $300. tim 248 391 2456
timk you gotta look at the date on threads, this is a 4 year old thread and Bryan aint on this board anymore.
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