It'll take time but I think my friend and the two people that were riding with him will eventually make a full recovery. I just posted this to help encourage other folks like me the importance of seat belts.
Way back I was in a accident in a 65 mustang. Did not have seat belts on at the time and flew forward and hit the steering wheel. Ended up with a lacerated liver and other things. In the hospital for a week and lots of pain afterward for quite a while. I wear them all the time since.
I'm not sure if there is a misunderstanding. Has anyone on this thread said, "Do not install nor wear seat belts."?
I would put shoulder belts in. I don't know if the small screws are sufficient. I would probably look into reinforcing the B-pillar and welding a/the mount. https://www.julianos.com/Articles.asp?ID=244 https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/article-abstract/338541
Down here similar style flat bar or flat plate brackets are inserted into upper and lower boxed sections, they're drilled/tapped for seat belt bolts and plug welded into place.
Early hardtops with seatbelts like my brother's first car, a 1971 Olds Delta 88, had a separate lap belt from the shoulder belt. The shoulder belt was bolted into the roof rail and there were clips along the headliner to store the belt.
I'm not sure how you would do it in an early roadster like an A or T unless you also installed a roll bar.
Tricky job putting a 3 point in a 34 3 window chevy as it's timber framed but for the sholder strap I made a 16gauge spreader plate around 8 inches square and secured it with 18 wood screws into the timber structure. No idea if its strong enough but it looks substantial. Unfortunatley not got any pics and it's trimmed now.
I don't have the answers and I'm not wanting to try to field questions or comments about it, but if someone wanted to do it, then I think it could be done. A roll bar would work, but that also adds the concern of keeping heads away from roll bars. A lower height version of a roll bar should work- just high enough to be safe with regard to not wanting the shoulder belt to compress the spine. Maybe a single upright post bolted to the floor and/or other structure would work and be sufficient. Maybe a seat frame would work and be sufficient. Maybe an upright attached to a seat frame would work and be sufficient. In the following Ford Barn thread, comment #3 has someone that built and installed structure so the shoulder belt pivots are in the center of the cab versus on each side. The person that started the thread did something else (see #12 for pictures and explanations). https://fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=134748 I came across the following picture. A roll bar with (more) padding might be a good way to have a head rest and mount for a shoulder belt pivot. I imagine that one could be made removable, if someone wanted it for driving but wanted to temporarily remove it for showing. I remember another picture (in a thread a few months ago) of an old show rod that had head rests. https://www.hotrod.com/features/0710rc-1931-ford-roadster/photos/
That's what I was thinking, building one of those myself and there's no way I'd put what is on the red car above on my RPU.
Here's a good HAMB thread where several people have posted what they've done and are working on: https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/3-point-seat-belts-in-a-31-sports-coupe.1306194/page-2
Not to get too far of subject on this thread but why are you guys' so anti roll bar? Beside rollover protection, they give you a place to mount seat belts and also stiffen the chassis. Not to mention by the mid 50s they were pretty common and make a boring street car look like a racecar!
The square/angled corner ones look a bit utilitarian. The one in the middle pic is ok. Radiused corners and the right proportions can work. It's all about making it look like it should be there, and not look like a hasty afterthought...
Ever bump your head against a roll bar without a helmet on? Apparently not, or you wouldn't be asking that question. Roll bars in race cars are usually padded and the occupants have crash helmets on. On street driven cars, that race car padding on the bars wouldn't be much help with out the protection of a helmet, and most people don't wear crash helmets on street driven cars. I'm betting the roll bar (even padded) without the helmets would cause as much damage as no shoulder belts. I can promise you the 1st time I instructed my wife to put on a crash helmet to go for a ride in my coupe would be the last time she would be going with me. She would now be a reluctant rider with just a lap belt these days. Fortunately, our coupe has a pillar at the back edge of the door, and adding a reinforced upper 3 point seat belt pivot was not hard. Do I have any proof my 3 point belt system in my 48 coupe (or my 49 truck) will work the best in a crash? Nope! I do know the shoulder belt pivot is above the shoulder, and behind the shoulder and the belt mechanism can lock into position. Do I know everything is at the best angle? Nope! All I know its it has to be better then nothing, and I pray we never have to find out. I've done my best, we will play the odds.
I'm not anti roll bar. I'm anti making your rod hideous. That red car I was responding about looks half okay, but put the same roll bar in a 28-29 roadster pickup and there's no way (IMO) to not have it turn out hideous. I've got plans to make my pickup safer than original, but that's not one of them. Notice how none of those you posted with those squared-off roll bars are pickups? There's one that looks good with a roll bar: That's also not the look I'm after. Big difference between a period roll bar and hanging 3-point belts off of it above the beltline on an open car (which screams 80's-90's to me). As has been mentioned, there are also safety concerns in running a roll bar without a helmet.
When I speak of safety, and the use of roll bars seat belts etc...it isn't just for someone worried about what if, it comes one who has seen and dealt with it, having a family friend killed in the 1990 ACRA 200 at Daytona and also having witnessed crewmen fatally injured at Lime Rock. Yes, I have hit my head on the roll bar on my racecar, and I will take a headache over being crushed to death or being driven through being runover by another car! You can always build a period correct head rest, roll bar padding is $6.00 for a 3' length, or you can go to a oval track swapmeet like I did new unused padding from someone getting out of racing for $ 2.00 a piece! I only have lap belts in my 53 Chevy however if I ever built an open car you can bet your ass it would have a roll bar and shoulder belts! There is a reason Sholder and Sub-belt are required, because you can slip out of them in a crash now is this something that is going to happen on the street who knows but I don't want to find out!
I too have been involved with oval track racing. Probably not at the level you have, but close enough I fully understand roll cages, roll bars, safety belts, and protection to reduce injuries. I have also been pretty deep into building hot street cars, and I fully understand the safety issues connected with them. Having been deeply involved with both venues, I can assure you that you can not apply the safety concerns equally across both venues using the same equipment arrangements. They are different venues with different safety concerns, with different personal concerns, and have vastly different safety equipment build into the cars. You would not climb into your race car to go racing without your helmet on, but at the same time I suspect you wouldn't climb into your 53 Chevy to go across town and put on your crash helmet before the car moved either. You won't grasp that until you hit your head on the roll cage without the helmet on, and consider the roll cage being used in a street car. You speak about ultimate safety but you still only have a lap belt in your 53? Do you still have the steering column that is part of the steering box in that 53? You are OK with only a lap belt that will allow your upper body to bend forward to meet the spear steering column heading towards you that won't collapse? But if you cut the roof off that 53, your going to install the full cage and racing belts to be safe???? Do you really think that sheet metal roof is going to make that much difference? When you cut the roof off and install the full cage and belt system, are you also going to wear the helmet every time you get into the car, or are you willing to take the chance you won't hit a bump on the road hard enough your head might smack the roll cage that might knock you out, or distract you enough to cause an accident? Dirt track cars are not street cars until there are modifications done, and street cars are not dirt track cars, you find that out when you race in a class that only allows street cars with 4 point roll cages on a 1/2 mile dirt oval.
Maybe you all should get busy putting air bags etc in your old cars. I’ll be out driving mine like the hoodlum I am.
I purchased two of the seat belt anchors mentioned above, and here's what they look like up close. They are a bit thicker than I expected, but the bolts are "only" Grade 5 (three lines on the head), but maybe there's a good reason for that: Link again: https://www.tanksinc.com/index.cfm/...ct_id=827/category_id=-1/mode=prod/prd827.htm
Most of The racing belts aren’t approved for use on the street. Just like dot belts aren’t approved for racing. The what to install and how much if any to wear has been debated for a long time. Belts do save lives, but they have also cost lives and other injuries. It is truly a question of what you choose to do.
Hit from behind in my 1 month old car. Kind of glad I was wearing a seat belt so I am here to write this.
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