Self employed . When do you know when its time

All very good advice...but it depends on what kind of business.I bought my bike shop in '76...I've had 2 employees who didn't screw me when I left them alone,and several more that screwed my eyes out.Yeah,I'm an asshole,but I'm an easy boss,IF YOU DO YOUR JOB.My wife works with me,too...Sooooo,the only spare time is the dead of winter,when there's no money.This week,my wife is on vacation.Last week,I took 4 days off to do stuff around the house.We haven't taken a vacation together but once in over 20 years.We can do this only because for a very brief time,we have a couple of extra employees in the summer.If I leave,she stays,and vice versa.We pay over $7200 a year for shitty insurance,out of pocket.No pension,only small IRA stuff,we retire when we die.No car shows in the summer,we work every Saturday.
So stay the hell outa retail..it can easily become prison.
Oh yeah,those 4 days off last week were all the days off I will take this year.
Yeah,we make a living,but I make less than even my really stupid friends,and work/worry a helluva lot more.
Why do I keep doing it?Cause I'm stubborn,and too old to learn anything decent.Besides,I already told you I'm an asshole,who would hire me?
Given a chance to do it over,I would punch that clock,take my days off,and leave my worries behind at the end of the day..I'd see my kids stuff on Saturdays,and never miss my sons ball games.So the boss makes more than you.....He owns the fucking place,he deserves to make more than you

 

just don't have a partner.

 

I'm an employee of a self-employed person. This guy went into busniess himself because he's got an ego the size of a truck, but he's good enough at what he does he can get away with it. Tell you what, after working with this guy, no way in hell would I ever run my own shop.

I can see the bonus of it all.. money straight in your pocket... but that money gets sucked right back out. He pays out the ass in taxes and expenses for me, he's basically on call 24/7 (late nights and weekends are normal), and there's very few days off for being sick. But, that's fine and dandy if you're a workoholic like him. I get along with him ok, because my old man is a workoholic too, so I know the type pretty good.

As a side note, being the employee of a self-employed person can really friggin suck sometimes. My hands are directly responsible for me having a paycheck... if I don't get work done, he can't bill our customers, and there's nothing in the bank for me to get that paycheck. Basically, most of the stress, with NONE of the benifits of being in business myself...

 

I went into business almost by accident and it has worked out well enough in almost 7 years being at it. Main thing I'd add, or re-state, is being in business is a roller coaster of emotions for me. One minute things "click" and all is good, and the next I find myself wondering how to get out of this mess. I do steel fabrication and retail circle track race parts. I have one part-time employee who is much better at welding and fabricating than I am. He comes and goes as he needs to but doesn't ever think of letting me down when we have a deadline.
The time off/vacation issue is what everybody's been saying. I feel guilty when I'm not there and my productive, income producing time stops. Also I do bill paying, customer billing, etc. "after hours" (really business is always on your mind) since I feel if my employee is working I need to be there too, in the shop.
We plan to move in about a year (about 4 Hrs. away). I'll turn over the fabrication accounts to my employee. He'll do fine. I'm trying to decide myself, whether to take the race parts with me or liquidate/sell and get a "real J-O-B". Man, I can't even say it!
Whatever you decide, best wishes and good luck! If can't talk yourself out of wanting to start your own business and hold back you'll always be thinking "what if" or "I wish I had"

 

Interesting thread. I started working for myself full time when it became a waste of my time to go to my job. (My employer had been upset with me for screwing up his accounting- at one point I han't cashed one of his paychecks for two months. ) I've been self employed for the better part of 11 years. I had to get a few "real jobs" when I first moved to Austin, until I found my customer base. It's been about 5 years since I quit my last job. So it's just me now, working in the garage in back of my house. I've got about a 6 month waiting list for the big jobs. I feel like I've taken my business as far as I can without having a real shop. So I'm getting ready to open a "real" upholstery shop. I'm developing some upholstery kits that I can market, and I'm working on a bunch of other ideas- stuff to keep the semi-skilled employees busy while at he same time keeping cash flowing in. That brings me to my biggest fear about opening a real shop- employees. I don't know how I'm gonna find good employees. That should say good, affordable employees. Anybody need a job in about 6 months?

 

Don't know if anyone touched on this but....
The wife and myself took a business course years ago and one thing that stuck out in my mind (because it confirmed what I thought in the first place) is what our instructor said. He stated that alot of people do not go into business because they actually have too much common sense. He was not being negative, actually, he was all about giving his students the ammunition they needed to go into business for themselves.

BTW Zonk made some good points, wise doood.

 

I had my own company for 7 years. I had hoped to work less and have some car time, but down time was spent drumming up business so employees could work. They are a big responsibility. Also the government and insurance is geared for full time work. I'd start the year shelling out $25K for insurance and then work for the break even day. Finally I had just been around long enough I was filling out forms for everything. I was doing retail forms even though I was construction. OSHA likes to visit the little guy so they get their quota without doing a lot of work. I had this nagging feeling some bureaucrat was going to say I didn't do his forms and levy a fine to wipe out any profit that year as the paper work kept growing. The state kept reclassifying my payroll payments monthly, then quarterly, then monthly, Then they would send a bill the following year for missing months. If my paperwork were not organized, I'd have paid it. I still have a state bill for $0.02 due plus $2 interest! The final straw was when they reclassified me so I paid $0.49 on every $1 payroll in workman's comp even though I had no accidents. I sold it, went to work consulting, and make more, but still have that got to get it done mentality so am still sucked into 60+ hour weeks.

 

Thanks guys. Im still not sure what to do lots of good points both ways. I was talking to the guy that owned the shop I worked for in high school last night and he keeps telling me to just stick with pinstripin (less overhead) and he has been gettin me alot of good payin jobs but that is a hobby that I want to keep a hobby (but gettin paid for it is nice too) Paint and body work is a job and a job that I love doin Its just that Ive went from helper to bodyman to painter to painter/ manager and now manager so whats next

 

Im 2-1/2 years self employed, doing the exact opposite you're doing. I'm looking into becoming a clock puncher again. I have a computer repair & sales business that I run from home. It was great until last November when my chick went back to work after the birth of our son. Now it's a hassle to get a last minute babysitter so I can go on a service call & I can only work while he's napping throughout the day. Sprinkle in a huge downturn in manufacturing here in the Dayton area (tough to sell new computers to a shop that's laying people off) & it spells financial problems. An unforseen problem has been the quality of my computers I'm building. They never die so I have to wait for them to become obsolete for repeat business. Enough of my rant, my son is waking up .... gotta go .... WWS

 

I certainly don't want to rain on anyones parade and I hope everyone who strikes out on their own is successful.All I know is what I've seen:
Never start a business that is the same as your hobby. When that happens you no longer have a hobby.
I notice machine shops and body shops that have Hobby /owners tend to do a lot of side jobs( rebuilders ect.). Their shops are loaded with side jobs,and sometimes they can't get paying customers work done because of the side work.
The other thing I notice is they spend a tremendous amount of time intially at the business trying to make it pay .This sometimes causes family problems and divorce.
To the people that say their boss buys expensive cars and toys, if that is what bothers you then make the investment and do it.I could be jealous of just about all of you and your cars but that wouldn't make it wrong for you to own them. If the boss has spent years and a fortune building a business he deserves to go play .

 

owning your own business is just like having a job, only you are FAR more responsible for the outcomes, and your fate is tied to that of the business. the risk IS a lot higher, so the rewards are too...

do you KNOW you rule? are you SURE that you could do it? i would never have started my own business if i wasn't CERTAIN that i was going to kick arse. particularly in a situation like a body shop where there's a fair whack of up-front cash required to get going. you will never see that money again if your business fails. if you borrowed it, you're double-fucked.

i'm young, no dependents, live with mum. i can afford to lose the money i've put into my business (though it would certainly hurt!). can you afford to lose it? and do you KNOW that you won't?

if you can honestly answer yes and yes to those questions... do it.

 

nothing in life is guaranteed.......so on that note .do you want to go through life saying'' i wonder what would have happened if i tried this or tried that on my own.?''......i say give it a shot after doing your homework on starting up a business like that in your town.......and good luck to ya if you do ....

 

Someone said something about having 6 months bills in the bank I think thats the first thing I need to do. My wife works for the post office and has the insurance in two years we will have no bills but the house and her check covers almost everything now but we do have three kids and the bills that wont go away (phone,electric,etc)and very little money saved so I think Ill wait out the two years and start saving

 

sounds like a plan and a goal.......also sounds like you have your head on your shoulders..........L8ter, donnie

 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Most small businesses fail in the first year,
because they didn't have enough money up front to keep going until the cash started coming in.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would amend this to say, "Virtually all poorly planned small businesses fail in the first year, because they didn't have enough money up front to keep going until the cash started coming in."

Up front planning is critical. If your first business idea doesn't work out on paper, then scrap the idea. You'll eventually hit on an idea that adds up, and that business will have a much better chance of success.

[/ QUOTE ]

i work for one right now (on it's last leg after 8 months). i would, like to add that if you can no longer stand ANY bosses and feel that you can do better in your sleep. then it's time to jump ship........but your $$$$ must be in order first. rent down here is $1.63sq ft and no place smaller then 1850sq ft. now i have to wait till someone i know is ready to pay half (rent half)......... no kids, no bills (except house and utilities), girlfriend works.........waiting sucks.

 

I've been thinking about what's next if I leave my current carrer also. These two books have helped me get my mind going:

- What Color Is Your Parachute?
- Rich Dad, Poor Dad

Both are best sellers. Yes they may seem a little cheesy, but there is good information in each.

Like many have said here: Don't jump into a business without first researching yourself, and then researching your business plan. Be honest about your own strenghts and limitations and talk to people who are already doing what you are thinking of doing. Seems there are quite a few people on this board to brain pick.

Mike

 

When I made the mistake of working with a really good friend of mine and come to find out that i actually knew about building houses that he did I knew it was time.

 

[ QUOTE ]
just don't have a partner.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yep, been there and also, make sure your bookkeeper is not the one reconciling the checking account. Its too easy to create venders and steal money. My wife makes good money as an RN but looks like she is going to have to come back as bookkeeper. Last bookkeeper stiffed us for about 7 grand over a 1 year period.

 

Man o man...self employed...sounds great and scares the hell out of me at the same time!

I like working for smaller self owned companies better than I do the big corps...but I must say knowing the paycheck is good and that I don't have to hold onto it and or make sure the money is in the bank so I can get the employee checks is nice too.

I really want/wanted to own a music/used music/videogame/used videogame store of my own. I have managed them in the past and I know what I am doing. However right now I am not in a position to do it and music stores are not in demand as they once were with so many big chains selling music/dvd's/videogames now.

Another idea I had was I would love to own a small fish n chips place. you would only have a small amount of overhead product wise because of the limited items on the menu...I think it would work in places where the only fish n chips is long johns silver...

one other idea I have is I would like to find a partner (there is that dreaded partner word) that is great at bodywork/restoration/mechanic work and start a shop. I am NOT able to do this myself but I would be able to help manage the projects to help keep them ontime and I would be able to help bring in work. If I was to do something like this I would keep my regular job to help finance the company till it could support itself.

One thing I do right now is I am debt free and payment free! I do this for when change hits and oh does it hit...I am prepared and able to deal with it. If you are going to be a business owner it seems you better make sure your bills outside of work are in check.

 

This is all great food for thought. I read this thread with a lot of interest. I am having a rough time getting a job back in the cable industry, and I really don't like the work much, anyway. It's just the longest stay I've had at a job (5 years).

I'm in the same boat as a lot of you. I can do my own stuff damn good. Both with cars and music, even writing. It's just the whole "takin' the plunge" concept that freaks me out. It's a self-confidence check, for sure.

But when I think about what complete, clueless idiots my old bosses were, it drives me to just do it.

 

holy shit thats a lot of advise in both directions ,
i`m just about to start up myself and the paper work side of things is mad but i`ve got the money sorted {i think he he}goin to be doin aircon and refrigeration install ,ive bin doin the job 18yrs now and dont feel i can go any further in this firm {still on the tools and dont intend to change to much like to get stuck in }ive had nothing but good vibes off everyone that ive board to death with my plans so its having it ,goin to be startin in the next 3 weeks.it will work cause im fucked if ill let it fail{oh that sounded a bit of awanker there but hey}
i`ll let you know if i sink or swim .
good luck to anyone who `s doin it and if you like that regular pay check thats kool to ive done it for 18yrs ijust need to be in it for me.
just had to get that off my chest he he

 

After working for other firms for 15 years, I started my own graphic design business in 2000... and the adventure begins.

Wife loses job.

Started-up an online t-shirt sideline called Zero to Sixty Vintage & Custom. 23,000 hits in the first month. This is supposed to be a hobby.

Bought 1949 Ford.

Moved from spare room to a downtown office, 2001 (hated working at home).

Zero to Sixty suffers from neglect.

Wife diagnosed with non-functioning gall bladder.

While working full-time as a designer, opened a pub with 3 partners in 2002.

Mom diagnosed with Alzheimer's.

Tired of parking tickets, moved the design business to a warehouse/garage in 2002.

Ford languishes untouched.

Even with the site down and no advertising, I'm still receiving weekly e-mails worldwide asking about hot rod clothing. Can't do it. Zero to Sixty meets Dr. Kevorkian.

Wife's brother attempts suicide... twice. Survives.

Wife loses 80 lbs due to undiagnosed digestive issues. Months of tests.

Wife's dad spends several months in hoslpital due to blood clot in leg. Keeps the leg, loses part of his stomach and an eye (unrelated, but adds to stress).

Folded one-man design operation and joined 2 new partners to form a new design firm, 2003. Renovated and moved into a century home, downtown again. Wife becomes a business partner (not just convenience, she's got a great resume).

Design partner's wife has twins.

Wife diagnosed with depression.

Discovered one of the pub partners had lighted the load to the tune of $30,000± in 2003.

Ford is moved into semi-permanent storage.

Dad has a mild heart attack.

Wife asks for a divorce and moves out in May 2004.

As I type this, my wife is in her office downstairs (yes, beleive it or not we still work together), trying to support one of my waitresses who got the shit wailed out of her by her boyfriend last night and came to us for help.

The moral of the story?! I haven't got a fucking clue, but be prepared to work harder for less reward than ever before in your life, and be prepared to get thrown a curve-ball now and again.

Someone on here said somehting like, being afraid of something that can't kill you is a waste of energy.

Life's an adventure. Go for it.

The HAMB helps.

 

great post, Big A...

 

Now you know what my signature is all about...

I've got a meeting this Friday to discuss a new business venture with someone... am I an idiot or what?!!!

 

I know this is an O/T subject but I did get alot of advice from everyone here and would like to thank everyone that replied.So now I will let everyone that cares know I took the money that I thought I was gonna use to start a shop and put a down payment on the 15 acres next to my house last night I thought it would be best cause I know that I can keep that and it would gine me lots of room for garages but then my wife had to ruin it and tell me she wanted to get horses again I hate horses I should have started a shop instead

 

Horses in front,
nice shop in the back.

With a sign that reads:

MikeO Inc.
Megacorporation World Headquarters




Can you legally operate a buisness from your home ?
Some places won't allow this.

And how much "on the side" stuff can you do at work,without getting static ?

 

I could most likely get away with doin whatever at home on the side or full time on the side would just have to be for "friends" or "family" not for customers But I dont want too much work at home cause its HOME not work and Ive got three kids and a wife to spend time with instead of awnsering the phone and the door I work at home when they are ALL sleeping cause I dont sleep as much as them and it dont change the time I have with them So I guess I'll have to stay here a couple more years and save to start my own shop at a later date But I doo have lots of room to drink beer now

 

Mike,
If you want to talk to a local guy who did just what your thinking about doing let me know and I'll give you his phone number. His business is Bodies by Ron in Caro. He doesn't do insurance jobs or "new" cars. He only does hot rods, restorations etc. It's really tuff in the Thumb because there just isn't a lot of that stuff goin on.

 

This is lengthy, bear with me. I think maybe you can gain a little insight into it. PM me if you have any more questions, or if I can help you in any way:

I had entered U of M in the fall of 1993...the Dearborn campus, not the Ann Arbor one...with the intentions of getting a degree in Engineering...then guaranteed $$$!!!

Or so I thought.

I ended up switching to Communications, pursuing a Print Journalism degree, and I now work for SBC as a supervisor of graphic artists (after a short stint as one), but that's a WHOLE 'nuther story.
At the same time, I'd had several dead-end part time jobs that paid little (all of which I ENJOYED by the way.) Everything from driving a NAPA delivery truck to cleaning municipal sewer systems...the jobs were cool, the pay ~ wasn't.
About the same time I got accepted to the University, I answered a small want ad in the local paper, it read: "Painter's helper wanted: small local bodyshop seeking someone eager to learn, flexible schedule, negotionable wages". That was me. I had had 2 years of autobody in high school, and I was good at it, it came sort of naturally to me. I was in the process of restoring a Chevelle at the time. So I figured what better way to make money while in school then to do something you like and get paid for it? Maybe even get a little "shop time" in to work on my stuff...I went in and was hired on the spot. I wasn't making a whole lot of $$$, but when I found out I was THE bodyman/painter's helper, in a shop no bigger than a 1 1/2 car garage...and working for someone who was working towards opening his own body shop, I was pleasantly surprised. I had thought of maybe one day owning my own bodyshop, so I could ride on this guy's coat tails, and learn the biz...

My boss, Doug, was a previously unemployed, out of work auto painter. He's done it for 12+ years. He had been laid off several years before when the dealership he worked for folded, and sold out. He went into business for himself as a one-man sign painter (spraying color on pre-made signs that would later be hung outside of a building and lit up at night.) He'd had enough of that when he had painted a friend's older car...their intentions were to have it painted so it looked good enough to sell... and they ended up keeping it cause it looked so good when he was done...he realized he should just get back into what he knew- cars, and the rest is history.

Doug was a great person, and an OK boss. Gradually, we moved from a really small shop to another small shop, to TWO small shops (one for paint, one for body), and eventually he got ALL the bodywork jobs from a local Dodge dealership who didn't have their own facilities. After 3 years, we were into our own big NEW shop, with a spray booth, 2 air compressors, a new frame rack, and 4 employees. We couldn't get the work out fast enough, and that was the biggest problem. I was working part time in the fall/winter, and full time in the spring/summers. It felt like every day we were under the gun. We each often worked 10-12 hour days. Fridays were usually a blur.

Finding and keeping good, talented people was a BIG obstacle. In a small shop, when your body man calls in sick (hungover)...if you didn't have an all-around guy like me, no bodywork would get done that day. There was no one to pick up the slack if all you had was one guy doing body/frame work, and one guy doing paint. During those 4 years, that was all Doug could afford to hire.

My boss seemed to be constantly pulling his hair out. He was seriously always pissed at something or someone. He too had to get dirty and pick up the slack quite often. At one point, he was THE painter until he found a replacement. Playing owner/estimator by day, he would paint at night, often staying until midnight to get a car done. All that to turn around 7 hours later and be back at it again.

If it wasn't people not showing up for work, it was not having enough work to keep everyone busy. If it wasn't that, it was not getting a car out fast enough. If it wasn't that, it was marital or kid problems. If it wasn't that, it was money (or lack thereof). If it wasn't that, it was dealing with pissy customers/regular clients who wanted a miracle make over for next to nothing so they could turn around and sell the car at an auction for profit- (Doug used to say "they'll pick fly shit out of pepper", which was VERY true). It was one thing after another.

All in all, after 6 years, I'd had enough of being a pee-on. At one point he offered me a partnership in the business, but being close to graduating, and seeing what he had to put up with, I chose to politely decline, finish off my tenure there, and exit stage left upon graduation/an employment opportunity. I will say that Doug's top priority was making sure his employees got paid, and I have to also mention that I never went without a paycheck. There were many weeks where HE however, did.

It seemed like such a useless uphill battle to me. We made it past the golden 3 year mark, with me and him doing pretty much whatever needed to be done. I did everything from frame straightening to writing estimates. It was a great learning experience for me, but what it taught me was that there was SO much involved - not only to just having the cash or being able to secure loans on start-up, but the rules and government regulations, and the ridiculous local and fire codes the city strictly enforced. You could go poor just trying to appease the local government. It cost $6000 bucks to have a fire supression system installed - to code - on our booth. When we put in the new building, the city maintained that there had to be "x" amount of parking spaces, at least one handicapped space, and "x" amount of shielding greenery in front of the business...this was on a lot that was zoned "light industrial"! While it may seem trivial, each of those 20 bushes we had to plant cost over $100 a piece. Pretty quickly, you see how any small profit you start to make; eveything you put into the business- quickly gets eaten up.
This is why it takes guys 20 years to own something and be sitting pretty. You have to tough it out a long time...if you have kids and they inherit your business, they stand the best chance at being the profiteers...if they aren't morons.

My bottom line: My boss was a nice guy. Perhaps too nice. He didn't want to screw anybody, but there were times he needed to. He had poor interviewing skills and selected people to work for him thru relationships he had prior to owning the business- that eventually ended up costing him, because he couldn't say "no". The people (while talented) ended up costing him too much money and time. The job pool in metro Detroit for talented bodymen proved to be reletively thin, (at the time) and he depended too much on one client for a source of income (the dealership). In a sense, from the get go, he positioned himself to be between a rock and a hard place, because he couldn't say no to his bread and butter, but he couldn't tell them to fuck off when they pissed him off either. At the start-up of the big building, he didn't have a choice, because things like a lack of advertising (which he couldn't afford anyways) and not having his building visable (we were on a dead-end street), led him to be forced to keep ties to the things that bound him in the first place. In hindsight, I guess I would have done a lot of things differently.

Doug aged 15 years in those 6 years he had the business.

When I graduated college, I moved on. Last I heard, he sold the business to a company that bought him out...they have a fleet of work vans, and he now works in the same building, repairing the vans for the very company that bought him out. All that effort was for naught, in the end...total time in business for himself? 7 years. I'm sure his personal finances took quite a beating as well...

Bodyshops are a high-stress, high turnover business where profit margins seem slim. Like everything else, and to echo what others have already said: if you're smart, and persevere, you can accomplish what you seek...but not overnight. And maybe not in 6 years, either.

- my .02