I'm playing around with a couple of ideas on how to run my shocks and keep them out of the engine bay and fenders on my 1940 wa. I'm running a 4 link suspension up front and am thinking about running the shock from the frame rail to the lower 4 link bar. The only problems I can foresee is the short shock travel and finding the right shocks that could work in an almost horizontal position. Does anyone have any suggestions or concerns about this? I figure as long as I run the shock parallel left and right, I won't have any binding issues. Anyone ever tried this before?
Found this. Rear horizontal shock absorbers for a 67-70 tornado and el dorado. http://www.fusickautomotiveproducts.com/prodinfo.asp?number=50230 Think it would work for my application?
There has to be an action working upon the length of a tube shock, making it longer or shorter as the suspension goes thru its range of motion. The shock needs to be as close to the actual point of motion as possible to give the best performance. You can mount certain shocks flat (but not all) ...but the setup will require a bellcrank to change vertical motion of the axle to motion that will stroke the shock fully, no matter what position it in. Laying it flat without a bellcrank of some sort will give almost no motion to the shock until the suspension has moved several inches. You need instant reaction from the tube shock at normal ride height. I would like to see pictures of your setup. Having no room for shocks on a truck is...odd. Could you use a lever shock???
Not that I don't have room it's that I don't want them in plain view. As of right now this is theoretical. I'm pricing and designing so I don't waste a bunch of money in parts I won't use or waste time in the garage getting frustrated because of something not working. So no pics as of right now worth posting its just a rolling chassis with a body sitting on top right now. But I do thank you all it definitely brought up some good points and things I should have thought about.
If this idea is on pare with your mechanical skills, I suggest that you take up another hobby. A tube style shock will not work. You could use a friction or lever action shock.
I had a look. It seems the '67-'70 Toro/Eldo had a dead beam rear axle on very soft leaf springs, and had little additional horizontally-mounted dampers to damp axle wrap-up under braking. I'd expect them to be very stiff and have very short travel, in which case they'd be mounted horizontally precisely because they'd do pretty much nothing during bump motions. No good for your application, therefore. I'm not sure I understand how the dampers would be visible inside the fenders. Wouldn't there be an inner fender panel to the engine compartment? I think we'd all need to see a few pics to understand exactly what your question is.
Ok so here is an idea of what I am talking about. It's not exactly to scale but I think it gets the point across. And don't worry I'm not planning a cholo drag just a comfortable ride that will hold height with whatever load
Theoretically possible, but you would need to have custom shocks made. There is not an off-the-shelf shock that would have valving to accommodate that. Why can't you just put them next to the bags? Where is your panhard bar going to go?
I hope this gives a better idea of my mechanical skills. I wasn't meaning exactly horizontal but in general direction of travel being side to side. My knowledge of shock absorbers available on the market, however, is not extensive that is one of the purposes of me posting this. To see if a problem is in my design and if anyone knows of a shock that doesn't require a lot of travel to be effective that would work in my application.
Pan hard across the axle. As this is a side cut picture I couldn't think of a way to show it and make it make sense. The sway bar (from the pic) would be moved forward a bit to accommodate the bar clearance. The next idea would simply be to put them next to the bags. I just don't want too much going on right there and I haven't seen this done before and thought it would be neat. Also thought of mounting them in front of the axle just inside of the four link
There will not be one. This is not an issue of travel, but of valving, and moreover, the basic function of a shock absorber. A shock absorber converts excess kinetic energy in a suspension element by converting it to heat, via friction. That friction is created by moving a perforated disc through oil. For a shock absorber of this size to have the function that you desire, it would have to withstand the giant mechanical advantage that the control arm and axle have over it, and use its tiny body to dissipate all of the resulting heat. A shock under those conditions will self destruct in short order.
Based on your drawing above, create a lower shock mount that hangs as low as the lowest point of the 4-link bracket on the axle. Create an upper shock mount on the frame, extending up as high as it can without hitting something. Make the lower mounts wider apart than the upper mounts, by a bit. It helps with body roll control with a solid axle. Since you are running bags, take care to find a shock that does NOT bottom out when the bags are aired out. It will destroy the shocks. Run bumpstops, or bags with built-in bumpstops.
I've delt with some that would be able to withstand that pressure but the price tag would be outside my budget. I guess it would be better to just stick with a traditional setup. Inside the bags if I have the clearance or in front it is. Thank you everyone for sharing your experience with me. It's another tool in the garage. I plan to use ride height valves to maintain the stock-ish height of the truck. I will run bump stops as a precaution but how would I control overextension of the bags if a valve goes faulty? I've seen someone use chains but that is just goddy and couldn't stand myself for doing it.
The shocks should be outboard of the bags, or as close to the spindles as possible. The offroad market has limit straps, in 1" increments.
Thanks gimpy you have been by far the most knowledgeable and helpful in this thread. I will look you up if I run into any more suspension issues if you're willing to teach me some more in the future.
gas -filled racing shocks will work in ANY position ! they are used laying flat for pull bars etc and also can be mounted either end up.sometimes even mounted on a bell crank to lay flat inboard of the suspension.The biggest problem I see with your set-up is that the leverage would require an extremely stiff shock and the stress on the brackets would be high.always easiest to keep the shock travel to suspension travel at as close to 1:1 as possible[for every inch the suspension moves the shaft on the shock should move an inch]
Not true for any shock that has liquid in it. Shock valving is not the same in both directions. They have an up, and a down. Compression and rebound dampening are not the same thing, and valving is based often on gravity. Also, come to think of it, if you relocate the gas that charges the shock to to where the oil is supposed to be, that entire region will no longer have dampening. On a street vehicle that does not have big suspension travel, this could be a fair amount of the suspension cycle, resulting in a condition that could be downright dangerous.
I think it might be true of monotube dampers which have the gas behind a free piston. The rest of the volume should be full of oil at all times. The gas compresses to allow for the volume of the rod, and keeps the oil under a certain pressure against cavitation. The same goes for dampers with remote reservoirs. I think most twin-tube dampers have the oil returning to reservoir via gravity, whether gas-charged or not.
gimpy-about 20 shock companies would disagree with you.take a look in a Speedway Motors catalog.afco,qa1,pro,bilstein all make shocks that can be run in any position.I'm currently using QA1 because they can be rebuilt and REVALVED at my local speed shop.shock technology has changed greatly in the last few years with shock dynos down in price to the point that some racers have a dyno in their trailers to revalve shocks at the track.P.S.even when you run the shock "upside down"[shaft down,body up]compression is still moving the shaft into the body
That is some shocks, and certainly not any conventional ones. If they are built to do that, then so be it. If they are not, you cannot just turn one over and expect satisfactory results. Any shock that depends on gravity, nope. To quote ElPolacko: "Actually, to be completely accurate only shocks designed to be run upside-down can be run that way. Even gas shocks. I do know Bilstien shocks can be run that way as well as higher end Koni shocks. Most mono-tube shocks can be run upside down or horizontal. The problem is with inexpensive twin tube shocks, they have an air pocket whether they gas charged or just oil. The compression valve is usually located seperatley at the bottom of the shock bathed in oil. If the shock is run upsidedown, the air pocket will be around the compression valve and render it useless because little or no oil will go through it."
Shocks from a 1970's Airstream camping trailer are made to mount horizontally. They are still available from any AS dealer or on line AS parts houses.
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