Shop owners and guys who build cars for a living....Do you guys charge the people whos car you are working on for the time you are cleaning up the shop after working in their projects ? Thanks Pat.
No. But I'm so cheap I need to. I do to much stuff for nothing, I search and answer questions, BS, and the days over and dont get paid. Starting today when U call to ask questions the timer starts !!! U know who U are !!!
That's a good question. Most shops I've worked at do. You are doing a task that is directly related to the construction of their car. But, on the other hand, how many new customers would you have if the shop is a disaster when they initially come by to talk to you. Some might say that it is the owner's, not the customer's, responsibility to take care of cleaning the shop. If you decide to charge the customer, make sure it is in fine print somewhere so that there are no surprises. Just my opinion. Karl
NO! aS AN OWNER YOU HAVE TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR YOUR WORK PLACE, IT IS NOT THEO CUSTOMERS PLACE TO PAY FOR THAT TASK. YOUR HOURLY RATE SHOULD COVER THIS UPKEEP OF YOUR SHOP IE; ELEC, GAS, RENT TAXES ETC ALL COME FROM YOUR PROFITS, INCLUDING MAINT AND JANITORIAL. SEEMS WE ONLY GET TO KEEP A SMALL PERCENTAGE OF THE GROSS PROFITS, SOMETIMES IT'S BETTER FOR A GUY TO WORK FOR THE GUY WHO IS PAYING ALL THOSE COSTS, YOU JUST MAY GET TO KEEP MORE THAN THE OWNER ON ANY GIVEN PROJECT... GOOD LUCK, BEEN DOIN THIS 35 YRS....
One of the best shops I know charges storage for cars before they get worked on--he has a waiting list. When the car isn't being worked on,the owner is billed for storage. His shop supplies and consumables are also all logged on computer. As is every car project in the shop. When one of this guys goes to the supply room for DA sanding paper, he logs onto the computer, punches up the car and enters "320 grit sand paper, three sheets" or cut-off wheels, etc. The owner gets a bill for everything used on the car. Supplies are marked up, which helps cover shop costs. (same way a hardware store marks up the package of sandpaper you bought from them. They didn't pay 3.99 for it, but you are). Every hour is tracked on each car. Bucket of fasteners comes back from the plater, the guy logs in that he's working on "X" car, and then spends the time sorting the bolts for that car. His guys work four and a half days per week (don't remember how the hours work out, with breaks and lunches) to get their 40 hours, and then Friday afternoon is the big shop clean-up day. They spend the last half hour of every day cleaning up, but on Friday the work benches get cleaned off, tool boxes cleaned off, floors mopped (not just broomed), any big equipment gets cleaned/serviced, etc. He has a very, very neat shop--and he has a very neat shop because he charges a premium from people to restore/build their cars. People spending a lot of money will feel much better if they're looking around a clean, organized shop, where all the guys are in matching uniforms and look professional. They know they aren't going to get taken to the cleaners for work that was never performed, and they know they won't be coming to get their half-finished project that missing half the parts they dropped off originally. -Brad
My brother has been doing "classic" resto's for over 30 years. He's now semi-retired but works on one car 20 hours per week. He punches a time clock in his own shop...if he has to go for parts, he stays punched in...when his 20 hours is up, he stops. He bills the customer every week for the job he's on...no check, no work. He bills for EVERYTHING on the job..but not for his clean-up time...that's on his dime. He's doing a '36 SS-100 right now (very early Jaguar)...every part is brand new or rebuilt/repaired...even built a new aluminum body for it. He's got enough work waiting till he's a 100.....
Guys I'm not talkin mopping and dusting and polishing your nicnacs hanging on the wall..I'm talkin about picking up tools, welders,supplys,the stuff laying around the car when your done...If a guy wants to stand around and bs about his car when I can be working on it thats on his dime. Pat
I bill a lot like your guy Brad. Shop supplies average 2% of the total bill. I just added up small hardware that came from the hardware store and not out of our bins, for one project all the little bolts added up to $30! Probably a total of $100 in harware. As for tool pickup, no, we dont bill for that.
I don't, clean up and shop maintenence are purely overhead. There are circumstances where cleaning and orgaizing are part of the job that is a given. Such as sweeping up the dirt that falls out of a rocker panel when you do rust repair. But to tack on general sweeping and such around a customers project seems a bit dishonest.
Now that is a Businessman. I worked for years in a custom cabinet shop and the guy ran it the same way. (this was before computers so it was a little harder). this does two things. It allows the shop owner to better know the cost involved with building a car, but it also shows the customer that they are in serious hands.
We do not charge for clean up time. That is just to be expected that you will spend a certain amount of time a day cleaning up your supplies. If you go to a barber, the buy doesnt charge you to sweep up your hair! Sheesh! We do charge for certain supplies like grinding wheels and things like that but we do not charge for little things like shop rags. We do charge if we have to take a car places, like the chemical strippers or painter. That is work time taken away from the shop. There is a local shop (that I will not name) that charges for EVERYTHING! By the time you get your bill, labor equals out to over $100 an hour. They charge for handcleaner...ridiculous. I think in this business, there are certain costs that you eat...just like in any business. It is only fair to charge for time and money that you are really using.
Damn Pete your alright, I'll paint some flames on my lawn tractor and you can hot rod my lawn this summer that would save me about 8 hours a week then I'll charge that to the customer too, shit I'll make out like a fat rat. thanks bud.
I worked in a body shop in NC once, & couldn't determine why my checks never came out to quite what they should. Then the boss finally admited that he charged US for cleaning up the customers' cars!!! WTF??? He said WE got 'em dirty working on them so we had to pay to clean them. I said SEE YA'! No I don't charge for cleaning up the shop. I think that is overhead, & I have very little overhead so I'm OK. I only charge $20 per hour, too, & that time is spent on the car. I think I'm going to start charging more for fiberglass work, though; it's starting to aggravate my skin a LOT here lately (never did before). ~ Paul aka "Tha Driver" Bush is on a tour of the east; he's visiting American jobs...(my best friend's included).
I charge the customer for cleanup after the work on his car is complete. That's part of the job. It is included in the hourly rate that goes against each job. If the job takes 3 hours and cleanup from the job takes 30 minutes, the customer is charged a total of 3.5 hours labor time. I try to include most things (shop supplies, solvent, cleaner, etc) into the hourly rate. The only item that is charged out separately is a Hazardous Waste Disposal Expense (HWDX) and that is 5% of the parts and labor maximum $25 dollars per work order.Call it a green expense. Think about it, you have to pay to have waste oil, filters, batteries disposed of. There is a HWDX charged me by the company that supplies our uniforms. I have to pay the county a fee each year to moniter my waste disposal. To date I haven't had very many customers object and those that did, I don't work on thier car. Believe it, you don't need those kind of bottom feeders.
I build it in to our labor rate. I also have a young kid who cleans up the shop all day long if needed. If he isn't cleaning, it's because it's already spotless. I HATE listing e-fees on a work order so about once a year I take two whole consecutive months and itemize every single cleaning expense, every single shop rag expense, soap, floor cleanig soap, windex, etc... Whatever the total expense is, I divide that by the number of repair orders. That gives me an avereage expense per vehicle. If it has gone way up, I find out why. If it remains the same, I don't look any further. A couple years ago I upped our labor rate by 13% to cover these costs and not one person ever questioned it. Benefits - there's never a question of who is responsible for the mess, no matter how big. Customers vehicles leave cleaner than they arrived. Less chance of injury due to crap all over the shop. Owner is less stressed
No, actually...I think the best way to do it is not only is clean up on your dime, but sand paper, filler, primer and thinner,etc. should be on your dime j/k, If we are organizing a job, ie; moving cars around, getting all parts for YOUR car organized, thinking the task at hand through (like, where in the hell am I going to mount these shocks)....Those ARE things we will charge for.. Sweeping the floor free of grinding dust created by YOUR car??? you paid for that while I was working on it...
Cleanup is not 'after the project', it's 'during' the project. The only money coming in is the customer's. In my shop normal hours were 7-3:30.(!/2 hr lunch), 10 minute break at 10 and 2. At 3:15, tools were put up, and shop cleaned. No mechanic got paid for any time in the place unless he was clocked in on a customers job. The last act on a customer's job is when the mechanic clocks off it. Never had any mechanic get a short paycheck, MORE THAN ONCE. It was my job to make sure the mechanics produced, and up to me to keep the customer happy. Customers that don't want to pay for the job, want something for nothing, can go get it somewhere else.
We usually clean as we go on the major jobs...Many of our projects are frame off or total race cars and the enormous amount of debris shaken and cut out of the cars per hour can pile up. This is labor time. An overall shop "rat Killing" is on my dime. We take 15 or 20 minutes each evening to put up tools, organize parts and make ready for the next day...re stock the fridge and do it all over again. As for billing for each piece of sand paper, roll of tape and primers/thinners/solvents...that is figured into the overall cost of each job on the estimate and we amend that as needed. It's hard to maintain to the estimate as the cars evolve into race cars...many times changes are made and absorbed into the build...but the customer pays. The only time I pay is if I fuck up...then it's repaired or re done as per customer's desire...or as the work order called for. Yea...it's generally a loss of time for questions, "how do I do this" type of drop in guests...but we try to keep a good attitude and you never know when one of these folks will be testing the waters....many times one of these types has become a good customer and valued friend. Mark Artis Texas Thunder Performance 2027 Witt Rd Frisco, Tx (N. Dallas) 75034 972.712.6558 www.texasthunderperformance.com www.texasoutsiders.com
Matt are you trying to tell me you guys own a broom...Ha..btw I still owe you guys for cleaning up after me when I fixed the doors on that rpu. Pat
My shop clean up time and time not working on a piece goes into a shop overhead account, anyways cleaning is for suckers.
If the car developed the mess, as in cut out rust and debris from rockers. Yes. General shop maintenance and care . No, cost of doing business.
Theres a number called shop overhead. Thats where cleanup belongs. All the costs of operating your shop should be in there. ( cleanup, repair, heat, lights, etc) ... That monthly cost should be calculated into cost per hour and added to your hourly charge... I never used to do shit this way, but then I never used to make much of a living..... You'd be amazed what an accountant who has never set foot in your shop can tell you about your business.
YEP, I do. For me I think it is funny when I hear it is "factored in". For those of you that are a T&M shop, how can you factor it in when you don't have a hard number to "factor in". Now if you are a Flat Rate shop, ...THEN it is factored in --but again, a F/R shop charge is based off of repetitive procedures. T&M is just that, you are selling the customer Time & Materials. You made the mess on his time so you clean it up on his time. Matter of fact I tell my customer that all he is doing is buying my time. The value for him is that I own tools and knowledge that will likely allow the project to go faster but that if he were doing the job and making a mess, he would need to stop and clean-up just like us. Now if you wanna talk controvercial, how many of you out there are taking deposits from the customer and are working on a declining balance accounting method YET you are charging the customer a 'mark-up' on parts & materials. What's up with that logic?? Matter of fact, to each shop owner that posted above, WHY is your shop's labor rate what it is?? How did you decide what that rate should be??
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