I found a guy with a nailhead 364 for sale. The engine was pulled in 98 because it was locked. It has been sitting since. I will be talking to him more tomorrow, but wondered what questions you guys would recommend. This also comes with an automatic transmission. How much would this be worth? What would be involved with fixing this? Full rebuild or more? Thanks for the help, Luke
I'd only give scrap value if it's locked up, and if the auto is a Dynaflow I'd do the same there as well.
Cool motors, but it will be an expensive rebuild. I had a locked up Nailhead, a 322 I think. I junked it.
I checked your intro to see if there was a hint as to why you wanted one. I'll give you the same info you gave us when you walked in, nothing.
Chopped,Thats exactly the answer this guy would have gotten a few years back when I joined the HAMB.I kinda think the HAMB as gotten a little soft on some of the FNG's and wonder if maybe things shouldn't go back to the way they used to be.After all,isn't that how things are supposed to be?In a "traditional" sense? LOL
Like others have said, give us a quick intro and tell us what it's going into. It does make a difference. I put 364 and 264 nailheads in the same category as 239 and 272 Ford y-blocks. Why would you do one if you could get a more desirable engine? A 401 or 425 will cost about the same to rebuild, so that's what guys go for. I just did an early 401, I can confirm that they are expensive to rebuild. A decent full rebuild kit goes for around $1,300. Add a water pump, headers, carb rebuild, alternator conversion, etc. you're easily at $2,000 in parts alone. Would I pass on a decent 364 if it was cheap; NO. They can be good motors and in a light car, would you really notice much of a difference between a 364 and 401? Also on the positive side, 364 speed parts are cheaper. What does "locked up" really mean? I'd buy a motor that's stuck from sitting if the car had a hood on it, an air cleaner, the motor's full of oil and the rad has antifreeze in it and the motor is greasy/oily. I wouldn't buy a motor that's sat out in the rain with no air cleaner, valve covers etc. If water has gotten to internals, I'd consider it scrap.
depends on your level of dedication, and the price to attain said nailhead and thats really only a question you have the answer to
Welcome to the HAMB. I'm no expert but Ive heard that if it's stuck, you'll probably have to overhaul it or it will burn oil. The valves may also be stuck and need to be replaced. Figure a major overhaul into the price you're willing to pay. ------------- The following is a little complicated and convoluted but if you follow along, you may agree that it is good for both you and the seller. If it's scrap, you don't want to pay more than scrap price for it. If it's rebuildable, the seller shouldn't sell it for less than it's worth. The big question is, is it scrap or is it rebuildable? You two could argue all week about that and still never come to an agreement. Let's find out in a way that protects both you and the seller... Perhaps you could enter into an agreement with the seller. You might offer him scrap metal price for it with the promise that you'll find out whether it's rebuildable within a certain amount of time. If it is, you'll give him $X more. If you procrastinate, you'll pay him anyway. That way neither of you are screwed if it's scrap or if it's good. To protect both you and the seller, you could take it to an engine rebuilding service to get it checked out and magnefluxed. Get an estimate, or a statement of why it's not rebuildable, on paper from them as proof for the seller. An estimate over a certain dollar amount previously agreed upon by you and the seller means it's not rebuildable. That eliminates all the arguements about wheather it's rebuildable or not. It gives you both a go/no-go number. Maybe you and the seller could split the cost of getting the estimate since it's in both your interests to find out. A good target for the agreed upon rebuild price might be what it would cost you to buy another rebuilt engine from the same place. Maybe you could take off a few bucks for the added trouble and time involved with this one vs. simply picking one up from the rebuilders. The reason the seller might go for it is because there is simply not much of a market for engines that are rusted solid. If he doesn't want to agree to all this, I'd just offer him scrap price for it or look elsewhere. There's too much risk involved to pay more than scrap. ------------- The following may also interest you. It came from an excellent post about "awakening a slumbering engine" in our tech archive. I was given a stuck 1976 Ford 400 that I was able to unstick by pouring diesel into the cylinders and down the intake, just as the post described. Make sure your spark plugs are out so the engine can push the diesel out of the holes instead of trying to compress it. Liquid diesel (or any liquid) doesn't compress and will bend your connecting rods. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=77566 First you have to see if the motor will even spin. Remove the plugs. Take some light oil in an oil can and pump about a teaspoon onto the cylinder wall towards the lifter valley on a V8, or on the far wall in a straight 6. Then leave it for a while. Gravity will pull the oil down the wall, and onto the rings, where it will continue down until it hits the lowest spot. This will ensure your rings are oiled all the way around. Make sure the clutch releases and none of the accessories are seized. Removing the belts is a good idea Now take a breaker bar on the crank bolt and try to spin her clockwise. Make sure she turns over smoothly, and will spin over at least 2 complete turns. If you have an engine like this - pull the distributor cap while you spin the engine over, making sure that the rotor spins. If it does, mark the block where the breaker bar is currently point and start slowly rotating the engine in the opposite direction as before – note how far the bar moves before the rotor starts to move again. This is timing chain or gear slack. If the engine turns over smoothly, and you have less than 10 degrees of slack- you are looking pretty good. If the rotor does not turn – you have problems. Sometimes you will encounter stiff spots but the engine still turns over relatively smoothly. These are usually caused by a “witness mark” from slight bore rust where water has condensed on the bore by way of an open valve. Usually just working the engine over by manually spinning it will get rid of these spots. Put in a little more oil to make sure the entire bore is oiled and just spin her over by hand. Other times the engine will only turn a little each way, but grinds to a stop. This is caused by more extensive bore rust usually. You can usually free up the engine by pouring diesel fuel or penetrating oil into the cylinders. Use at most a cup of the stuff. Let it sit for a few days and retry. Make sure you turn it over with the plugs out and rags over the sparkplug holes since the diesel or penetrating oil is going to be coming out! This will also usually loosen up stuck rings. You might have to do this several times to get the engine spinning over smoothly. Usually an engine with bores this rusty will use oil once it is running. You will probally want to rebuild this one. You can also have an engine that spins over smoothly then suddenly stops and won’t go any farther. Spinning it the other way produces the same results. Sorry folks, but you either have a stuck valve that is hitting a piston, or worse. Check the accessories one last time to make sure that its inside the engine. If it is, you are at least going to have to disassemble the engine to find the problem. Might as well go through the entire thing. Worst case scenario is that she doesn’t move at all. FILL the cylinders with diesel fuel and let it sit for a few days. Remove the carburator and the exhaust pipes. With all the plugs out, try rocking the engine back and forth with the breaker bar. If it doesn’t move at all after a few weeks – you are just out of luck. You have major problems with that engine. If it does start moving, keep at it until is spins over nicely. This can take several applications. I have seen this technique used to unsieze a Cat D9 that had sat in the bottom of a lake for three years after it went through the ice. Luckily it wasn’t running when it went for its swim. If it can unseize that – an engine that has been sitting above water should not be a problem. Good luck! I hope you've found a diamond.
I'm not sure how your response promotes our love of hotrodding. Should he have posted an intro,sure. Was the "old" HAMB a hard-assed site-yeah-but I am not sure how that helped,either. It's a bit like having interns work 80 hour weeks until they can't think straight and make poor decisions about your health care. "We do it because that's how it was done for us". Great. Give the man an honest answer and ask for an intro.
They can be, but if it's for a Nailhead equipped car you can get nickel and dimed to death and end up with the same money in it swapping another motor. You can also do a whole lot yourself to cut down on costs. Than the 401/425 I'm wondering what speed parts are cheaper. The cams are the same, the bellhousings are the same, headers are the same, rockers are the same.... Flywheels are real hard to find as are manifolds. Enlighten me please.
"I'm wondering what speed parts are cheaper. The cams are the same, the bellhousings are the same, headers are the same, rockers are the same.... Flywheels are real hard to find as are manifolds. Enlighten me please." I've seen many used complete 3x2 set-ups for a 364 between $500-600 because they've been available for a while. The 3x2 set-ups for a 401-425 are usually brand new and easily run $1,200 complete...should have been more specific.
I haven't seen many 364 tri-power setups available, when I do they seem to be the same price as a 401/425 set. And the 364 Offy manifolds are still available new. Just aren't run as much as the 401/425 stuff. Oh well... I was just wondering.
"Would you walk into a group of guys in a garage and just ask 'Hey - got any 1927 Buick titles I can have? What's a stuck Buick 364 worth?' without introducing yerself first...? No? Then why you doing that here...?" I miss the old, tough HAMB.
jinx3; Assume up front any locked up motor is junk. Then if you want play with it, I would, trade some junk you don't need, then have a ball. Might actually salvage some good parts, for trading in the future.
chopped, you're a hard man. I'd like to know what diff it makes what the engine is going in. jinx3, don't let the hard-heads like chopped and a couple of others put you off too much. But do go back and read the rules of the forum. Also go back to your profile page, and tell a little about yourself. Include any hamb-type cars you own if any, and tell us why you like old cars, etc. Then do an introduction. There's a place to do that at the top of the first page of the H.A.M.B. Then feel free to ask your questions, and make an attempt to be friendly and gracious about the whole thing, even in spite of some grumps. Lots of good people here, with lots of knowlege. If guys try to help you, always repost to thank them. In fact, it's good to thank them ahead of time in your initial post. Take time to browse around the site, to see how things are done, and try to do the same. Welcome to the hamb. Have fun. Good luck.
Really not much to go on here. There's a world of difference between "locked" because it sat, covered, for years and a piston or two seized to the cylinder wall and "locked" because it sat exposed to the elements and has been full of water since 1973. Around my neck of the woods, 364s that at least still turn over aren't that expensive.
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