Technical Side Steer

I am in the planning stage of an early Model-T project. I have firgured out how I want to do most of it, but I am at a loss as far as the side steer steering box. Does anyone have any suggestions?

Drag

 

Search "cowl steering" it was a once-popular setup that's no longer in fashion around here.

Unfortunately, this thread may devolve because it has become a hot-button topic with many opinions.

 

You may want to study this thread, particularly the posts written by Pete Eastwood:
https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/cowl-steering-just-stop.1101046/

 

A simple GIF

 

this picture is not side steer. Model As have side steer

 

it's cowl steering.

 

Cowl steering is very much in fashion in my shop.

 

And it works as good as any of our antiquated systems out there. Hell, my OT 2000 Ford Ranger had more bunbsteer than my last 3 hot rods.

 

Drag, some info here that may educate you along with the Eastwood post previously mentioned.
cowl steering woulkd this work ?? | The H.A.M.B. (jalopyjournal.com)

 

Back to your question. Popular side steer boxes for early ford are 48-52 F-1 and 53-6 F-100.
I’m building a T roadster now and an using an F-1. Years ago I built my T modified using another F-1 box with some modifications to use it as a cowl steering box and I have never encountered bump steer with that setup.

 

^^^^ this.

 

If you have very little suspension travel you will have little bump steer with cowl steering. More than 2" suspension travel and the bump steer starts.

 

Also popular was the Mopar/Dodge aluminum manual steering box.

 

I have a 1956 F100 steering box to steering wheel that is as smooth as gravy that I was saving for “a future Coupe build” , then I kicked around using the wheel , column and most of the shaft in my ‘48 “Effie” to keep the same era flavor so I think something similar would work best for you. All in one package would simplify it and if you wanted a tie rod end get a little later pitman arm .

 

Corvair , mustang, Vega all are used in side steer application .

 

To avoid mechanical bump steer [caused by geometry] side steer or cowl steer needs to have 4 bar suspension.

For a cheap cowl steer box look at VW 1302S "Super Beetle" [any Beetle with Macpherson strut]
They are already "Reversed" to operate in the same direction.
In fact any Beetle box will work but the later ones are easier to mount.

1302S LHD pictured below [you flip it upside down and fabricate a mounting bracket from the top side]

 

i have a few vw super beetle boxes and used them in several applications. side steer and cross steer. works great!

 

What pitman arm are you using with the vw box? OE?

 

Also, what pitman arm.

 

For a cowl steering set-up you would need to make an extension on the sector to get the steering wheel in a better position.
This would apply to any steering box.

A sprint car steering box would be a good candidate if the builder lacks imagination
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What I've done on steering box swaps is use the original pitman arm for the box as a donor for the spline,

We would bore out the pitman arm spline on the pitman we needed to use
Then we would cut the arm off the old steering box pitman and put it in a lathe and machine a "splined collar" with a 1 thou interference fit to the bored out pitman. [we also machined a 45deg taper on the ends]

Heat the pitman and then press in the splined collar. Then weld in the 45 deg tapers until it is flush [and grind smooth after]

I've driven at over 170 mph with a "hybrid" pitman arm on my road racing Corvette [with an Aisin Power steering box]
50 lbs force on a 14" diameter [7" radius] steering wheel is only 29.16 ft/lbs on the steering column.
with a 16:1 steering box this equals 466 ft/lbs torque at the steering box spline.
An 8" long pitman arm is lucky to see 500 lbs of lateral force at the ball joint [which is usually when parking with wide tyres]

To put this into perspective , I've used a birdshit welded carb plate to lift an engine /trans combo [700+lbs]

So a properly modified/welded pitman is safe.
If welded steering components scare you....just get them heat treated

 

Yup
Here's one I did for my champ car, using an F1 box, commonly known as a Gemmer box.

 

That’s exactly what I did on my modified.

 

If the rear pivot of the wishbone ,/ hairpin " radius rod" is the same as the drag link/ pitman arm pivot point , there will be no bumpsteer .

 

I reading up on steering and bump steer and I saw this post. 2000 Ford Rangers have rack & pinion steering. Should be little to no bump steer.

How is cowl steering inherently more bump steer prone that OE on say a '32 Ford? Is it the angles of the drag link?

 

Had a Corvair front suspension with rack and pinion steering. Had bad bump steer. One of my many bad ideas.

 

It's not more prone , it's prone to more . The further apart the pivot points of the drag link & hair pin , split bone ( which ever) the more radial deviation is created , hence , more bump steer .

 

I had a Model A with Corvair front suspension.
It was fine with the Pinto front steer rack.
Later, it was fine after being converted to an Omni rear steer rack.
The car had 140k miles when I sold it. Always drove without any noticeable bump steer.

 

Curious - when you had the pinto front steer what steering arms did you use? I have a similar setup and the ackerman is terrible - outside tire turns sharper than the inside - just opposite of what's desired

 

@okiewinger ,
It had the stock Corvair steering arms in the front steer configuration.
I put over 40k miles on it in that configuration with one set of tires.
Ackermann wasn't correct, true. But it didn't make a noticeable difference in driving.

The Model A has 4.5 inch shorter wheel base than the Gen 2 Corvair. My guess the Ackermann was better in the A than the Corvair?

 

Can someone please tell me where all this bump steer with this set up is?