Technical Single ignition wire firing each bank of V-8

I remember seeing what I think was T-bucket with a Hemi in a magazine (1957/58) with a single ignition wire to all 4 spark plugs on each bank.

I’m sure this was done in an effort to ‘clean up’ the engine.

Would an engine run with this setup? Each plug would fire 4 times every revolution (assuming standard points type distributor) and which ever piston was on a compression stroke should fire. This would depend on an ignition system strong enough fire 7 ‘dead’ plugs and 1 under compression. I don’t think it would have run well but the car seemed to be a show custom.

This is a memory from a long time ago and I may even have asked this question before …. but don’t know if I got an answer…..

Anyone got thoughts on this or can possibly confirm this car actually existed?

 

Seems like an odd experiment.

But...not maybe so impossible.
See the MSD (multiple spark discharge) box's (and a couple others), that fire about six times, in about 20° of crank revolutions, for every "single"...firing order at idle. NOT just one time.
This continues up to about 3000 rpm, when the system reverts to a single, high energy spark like "normal".

See the MSD instruction manual(s) for more information.

So yeah, I'd guess with a much modified distributor and or external control box with lots of diodes transistors and capacitors, it could work.
BUT, it seems that at slightly higher rpms than just idle, the spark could become a BIG problem which plug that it was supposed to fire at what RPM !

Mike

 

^^^ ... not in 1957/58...

 

I remember it.

Pretty sure it was not a Hemi.
Might have been a SBC.

Kinda sounds like a crude Wasted Spark System.

 

Who said Show Cars had to run?

A lot of two-cylinder snowmobile engines do it.

 

It was on a nail head Buick in a Model T, this photo was on the cover of the Hot Rod Yearbook No. 6. The car was featured in Hot Rod magazine but no idea of which issue and I never saw the ignition system explained.

 

I thought it was a buick

 

No, that doesn't work. Any time you put multiple spark plugs in parallel you will only get spark on one of them, the one the spark can jump across easiest, and that will not be any cylinder under compression.
Something else is going on there.

Two plugs on one coil is a waste spark system, with both plugs wired in series. Relatively common, but that's only two plugs per coil, no more.

 

Sounds like a disaster waiting to happen. Every 45 degrees you have a spark. So, two cylinders are properly timed in reference to tdc1. (One will be 180 degrees away from TDC 1). But just think, one or more cylinders will be in the compression stage. I would think that ignition anywhere in a compression stage would ignite and send the piston back down or possibly slow or kill the engine rotation. And what happens with advancing the spark? Love to see one running.

 

If it was actually usable, someone else would have done it again since then.

 

I remember Hot Rod ran an article about that setup in the issue that had the T featured.

 

There was an explanation of this in one of the bucket threads when it came up. I think it was Bucket Of Ugly, but not positive.

 

I see a lot of things on show cars and think WTF. I treat it as art rather than competent engineering.

BTW it could be made to work if the crank and cam were configured to act like I giant V Twin.

 

I seem to remember that Hot Rod magazine done another article on this idea in the 60's but I thought that V8 flathead. The reason I say the 60's is I would not have bought Hot Rod mag before then.

 

Could that be four separate pieces of thin wire covered to look like one?

 

That would be my guess.

 

For anyone interested, on topic, my 3cyl Rotax Type 809 fires all 3 every time. And point of fact H-D V-Twin engines fire both every time and have done so for quite some time. Not sure what they do today with all the electronics. I'd say the above was done strictly for eyeballs, and maybe in fact was separate hidden small wires. I can't square it up in my head on anything other than maybe a 180 crank.

 

HD's indeed use a "wasted spark" ignition, although they've got a separate plug wire to each plug. They fire both, and it does, as one would think, cause a little chaos in the cylinder that's not on the compression stroke, as there's some unburned fuel left. A Harley engine is pretty much all chaos anyway, it's part of the charm of a tractor engine in a motorcycle...

 

I'm guessing that's also at least part of the reason for the "puh-TAY-toe, puh-TAY-toe, puh-TAY-toe" exhaust sound at idle . . . ?

 

They have a dead stroke as in "bang-bang puff-puff" which is like flyin said above, farm implement stuff.

 

My uncle had a John Deere D I would drive as a kid. It indeed sounded a lot like a Harley.

 

I’d be interested in reading that thread but l’ve searched and can’t find it. Maybe I’m using the wrong search terms, can anyone help?

 

Never occurred to me, makes all the sense in the world.

 

But like spark plugs, you can't plumb diesel injectors in series unless you have some way to trigger them. They need to be timed just like a spark plug.

I do seem to remember reading about this engine in one of the hot rod magazines and they said it did run. There was an explanation of how it worked, but I don't remember it. It did have something to do with ignition only occuring when the cylinder pressure was correct, but that doesn't make sense either.

When I worked for the Dodge dealer, we had a Snap-On ignition box that gave out a constant spark. You could take an engine with a dead ignition system, pull the coil wire out of the distributor, plug in the wire from the Snap-On box and start and run the car. However, you still had the distributor sending the spark to the appropriate plug.

 

Maybe what the picture shows are glow plugs. The diesel fuel could have a delivery system that isn't shown. All that stack stuff in the valley-what's going on there? True diesel engines don't have throttle bodies or throttle plates to control engine speed.

 

Yes I believe it was in HRM. I remember Konig as being the name of the system. Should be in HRM archive's.

 

I agree. All the plugs won't fire equally. It's Vegas odds which plug would fire. "Electricity takes the path of least resistance". This is why distributors have "points", one per cylinder.
Edit: I'm sure this has been covered already..... but I'm leaving it here anyway.