Hot Rods Smogger 460 Ford BB Questions

Hi all,

I have a 460 Ford Lincoln motor in my 1973 F-100 shortbed and I want to wake it up. I found a tab screwed to the intake and it reads like this:
460 72 10
10-15 K866 T
Or the second line instead may be 0-15 K866 T

I am sure this is an early 70's smog motor so what I need to know is if it has flat top pistons and if the deck height is something other than zero.

Next question. I have some C8VE-E heads from an early 70's Cobrajet 429. I know these will fit fine but what sort of compression ratio will I end up with?

Last question. I want a good running street engine with maybe a small amount of attitude. So as long as I am replacing heads this would be a good time to slide a new cam in there. I plan on using the stock C-6 trans but could spring for a different torque convertor if necessary. This will be a truck used for the occasional drive to the home improvement store and not a race car. Any ideas on a good cam for this application?

Thanks!

 

If it's a 72 or older motor, those C8 heads (which aren't CJ heads by the way but were used on the '68 385 motors) are likely to be more-or-less the same as what you have. If the motor is newer, those will bump compression to about 9.7 but you'll need the pre-73 adjustable rockers and pushrods. I think the main difference in the C8 heads is they lack the thermactor bump in the exhaust port. For camshaft selection I'd call your fav cam maker and ask for a recommendation.

 

At one point there was a rather complete #385 series(370/429/460 motors) review & analysis on the HAMB; possibly a year ago(?), or check over on the "ford truck thread", as they have all kinds of 'low-buck' hints, info, suggestions, etc. on these motors(quick example: when doing a rebuild, or just a cam 'swap', make sure & get the 'early' timing set, as it gives you back the 4 to 6 degrees of timing that the later sets 'robbed' from you for 'smog-reasons', & really 'wakes-up' the 'frisky puppy' in the 'old dawg'!) & there's plenty more very useful ideas!!

 

If anyone can direct me to the thread drtrcrV-8 refers to that would be great! I am sure this smogger 460 topic has been hashed over before. Thanks!

 

Actually Steve, these C8 heads did come off a 429 CobraJet. I know because I pulled them off a wrecking yard car that had the 429 CobraJet emblem on it. Probably should have bought the whole motor as it looked perfect. Oh well.

The C8 heads have screw-in rocker studs and rockers with guide rails. From what I have researched they have 23-25 cc combustion chambers as compared to the 100 cc combustion chambers of the smog heads which are very crappy heads with an open chamber. The C8 heads I have are substantially different than the smog heads. Haven't checked to see if the C8 heads are lacking the thermactor bump or not. It would be nice if they did not have it.

Tell me more why I might need adjustable rockers and pushrods.

 

OK : Now ya got me lookin' : the HAMB thread in question was "Re : 460 Ford???" & was approximately 6/20/2013. It has a rather extensive & lively commentary on building these motors(that 'timing set I mentioned was for '68-'71), as well as some cams w/factory parts numbers that are relatively inexpensive. Once you get into these motors you'll need to read up on 'Jon Kaase Racing Engines', if only for information.

 

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/460-ford.752165/

 

Excellent!

 

Thanks Zerk.

 

http://www.jonkaaseracingengines.co...emisperical_big_block_ford_cylinder_head.html

 

Steve,
What was the 385 used in? Was it a truck engine like a replacement for the 360 FE type of engine?

Did Ford take the same route as GM and start stuffing the piston farther down the hole to lower compression in the early '70s?

 

385 is the model designation not the size. Like FE, Y block, etc.

 

If it is a smogger motor the cam timing is retarded from the factory. An early (70 and older?) crank sprocket will advance the cam to where it should be.

 

Never seen CJ heads with a 68 casting number I had 2 a SCJ and a CJ both had DOOV casting numbers

 

LOL makes me feel stupid, I have never heard anyone call them anything but a big block. I had also never heard of a 385 either so I asked. Just the other day I found out that Plymouth made a 350" b block.

Thanks

 

Early Ford BBs were FE & MEL, the Cleveland style are the late BBs.

 

Guess it depends on where you live, around here an FE is an FE, a MEL is a MEL, and a late model is just a Big Block Ford.

 

This site is where the jedi masters of 385 series BBF's hang out. A ton of valuable knowledge to be found here.
http://www.429-460.com/

Everything from simple adjustments and bolt ons for getting a stocker to run harder to building a fire breathing BBF strip monster.

 

i had a 460 that came out of a '69 Lincoln. It had the small chamber heads and screw in rocker studs. The pistons were dished. The stock rockers screwed to the bottom of the threads and were not adjusted. As i remember I got some BBC roller rockers and studs along with a Crower flat tappet cam and lifters. i had an Offy "Port-O-Sonic single four BBL intake that I modified for a Holley 1100cfm Dominator. Mallory dual point. Home made headers. That thing would really run. I also had flat top Aries pistons and a top loader. I had the SCJ valves in the original heads and straightened the exhaust ports as much as I could. If I had SCJ heads I think the ports would have been to large to seal against the 460 intake. That thing ran really good and I should have kept it. 197 mph through the 4. Never ran it down to the 5. Had under $2000 in the motor. To bad PAW is out of business.

 

THANK YOU ZERK !!! Bolerro, this is the thread I was referring to/looking for that I mentioned above, & will point you in several 'right' directions!! Some how Zerk's info also got loaded on to a 'sister' 460 Ford thread that's chasing this one around the HAMB(probably my fault-, but all the old info is also on it as well as available here. Sure hope someone else can use it ; it really helped me!!

 

Likely a Torino Cobra. It could have had the regular 429, a Cobra Jet or a Super Cobra Jet. Of course anything could have been swapped in over the years it went from the factory to the junk yard. CJ/SCJ heads are all D0OZ castings. The C8VE heads are the standard 1968 design, 2 years before the Cobra Jet engine was made. The CJ heads also came with pushrod guide plates, not rail guided rockers.

With your stock 1972 dished pistons .032" below deck, the C8 heads will give around 9.6 compression. The D2VE heads (one year, 1972, only) have crappy, full open chambers. The early heads are much better, and even the later D3VE heads are an improvement.

The 72 on the first line of the tag is model year. "10-15" would be the spot for a build date code, but it doesn't fit the standard format. Should be a number for the year (1 for 1971), a letter for the month (A thru M, skipping I), and the day (15). The O doesn't fit. Is it actually a C,D or G?

 

Can a street engine survive a 9.6 compression ratio on pump gas? I plan to use a Redline additive just for the sake of preserving the valves and seats. Will the Redline additive allow me to run on pump gas without detonation problems?

I will pull the engine tag and take a pic of it. That might help to see what it actually says. The stamping work is iffy.

Thanks everyone for all the help.

 

These motors have a lot of power stock. I bought a 74 LTD wagon from my Father - in - law. 460 with a thermal quad. It was a california car so it had a ton of smog stuff on it. As I was never going to register the car I took a ton of smog stuff off the motor so all I had left was 1 vacuum line to the dizzy and that was it. Bumped up the timing so it just purred. This huge tuna boat would exceed the posted speed limit in first gear and bury the speedo in second!! Never had the balls to run it out in third.
Good luck with it!!

 

Well, it really looks like an o or 0. I will try to upload a pic of the tag so everyone can see what I am looking at.

 

Any comments on the engine tag image I posted?

 

The car that I pulled the C8VE heads came from what appeared to be a bone stock engine. No indications whatsoever of any work previously done to the engine. Somehow I knew it was a 429 because it said 429 somewhere. And it had a Cobra snake emblem on the fender. It may have been a Torino. Or maybe a Cougar? I didn't pay too much attention. I saw the screw-in rocker studs and rail rockers and knew they were something special. So I grabbed them.

 

Can I ditch the rail rockers and fit pushrod guides to these heads? Maybe attach them under the screw-in rocker studs? The cast iron rail rockers look very heavy.

 

I pulled a 460 from a friends mid to late 70's Ford PU for him, it didn't have a lot of miles on the rebuild...but he wanted "more power"..I don't recall the original heads, something like CV3E?...but IIRC, CR was around 8 to 1.

I found him a set of good D0VE heads-were supposed be on some late 60's and early 70's 429's, and (been 6 or 7 years) I think after CCing them, would get him around 9.25 to 1...I put in (as mentioned before) a new earlier timing set a Summit .510 or .520 lift cam, forget the duration, Edlebrock dual plane intake (think it was RPM Performer) but spent about 3-4 hours on each head grinding the exhaust lumps out, smoothing things, lil bowl blending, valve unshrounding...nothing over the top, put his rebuilt factory 4bbl carb on top of it...and wow, did that engine run...heck, you'd never knew it had a cam in it at all...idled like a Honda..lol

But yes, due to the dished pistons of the smog era 460's, you need smaller combustion chambers to start to make some power, you'll never get a proper quench with the factory styled pistons, but you can definitely wake the motor up some!

 

How high lift can I run before I have valve/piston interference or spring bind? And what is better for street, high lift or increased duration? I think a slightly lumpy idle would sound cool but would like to keep a stock torque convertor or a moderate stall speed convertor.

 

As I mentioned, I went to BBC roller rockers and studs on mine. As i remember. Mine was a '69. Don't remember what I did for guide plates.