Hot Rods Smogger 460 Ford BB Questions

For general street use, I have had consistant god luck by by using pre '71 heads, early timing set, Offy "Port-O-Sonic" intake and a Schneider "Little Big" cam. The name sounds corny, but Jerry at Schneider recommended it and
I've been using his cams for well over 40 years and they have always worked. The advice that RichFox gave is very good too. The 385 seies is very much under rated and over looked. They can be made to run hard and long. When I used to work for L/M dealers, we would see them come in with over 200k on the clock and less than 3thou taper and 1/2thou on the rods. Rings bearings and a valve job and out the door for lots more miles!

 

I looked more carefully at the C8VE heads I have and they do seem to have a casting lump on the exit side of the exhaust valve guide. I assume this is what is called the "thermactor" bump? Is that a fancy name for an air pump port? At any rate the bump is there but no hole is drilled in it.

Has anyone posted on how to remove the bump? I have an extended reach die grinder and was thinking to use a solid carbide burr to whack the bumps down. Then finish as necessary with an abrasive paper cone. Any ideas on what is the best way to do this? And as long as I am in there, what else should I grind out? Thanks.

 

You don't have to be an expert to take those bumps out, just grab a die grinder and smooth them off. If your ports look like this leave them alone. 68 CJ/SCJ heads won't have thermistor bumps For street engines Summit's white box cam and timing set will work, As was said earlier BBC (seven to one ratio) roller rockers will work but if you go big on the cam check the grinders recommendation. Summit also has guide plates but remember to get hardened push rods if that's how you are going to go.

 

Here's some random pictured of one of my engine builds.

 

Here is a pic of my dirty heads. It looks like your photo Mike, I think. The bump is in front of the exhaust valve stem and off to the right. Do I need to remove this? I have attached a photo of the exhaust port.

Would it help to remove material to the left of the valve stem? It looks very tight in that area. Or possibly remove material so the valve guide is shortened a little? From this pic I can easily see why the exhaust is so restricted.

 

Clean up around the stem, don't get to carried away on the floor. Those heads will work fine as is but smoothing out around the stem won't hurt, if you look at your smog heads it's hard to even stick your finger in the port and touch the valve because of the clutter in the way. Using the CJ heads will effect the low end on your engine a little but it will be a net gain overall. By the way have you checked on what a set of good CJ heads are worth?

 

which pushrods? I have 429 heads for my 460 too

 

Don't know what CJ heads are worth around here. I check Craig's List off and on and for the most part 460 parts are pretty cheap here in the Seattle area. Everyone is so SBC crazy that the BB Fords go unnoticed. I would guess maybe $200-250 for a pair of rebuildable CJ heads.

 

I believe I had pushrods made at Smith Bros.

 

Yep, I did too. At the time, (1996) I couldn't find much in the way of valvetrain components for the 429. I went to 3/8" pushrods and didn't use guide plates. With the 1970 D0VE motor, 0.030 over, a .509 lift, 294 degree duration, 112 degree lobe separation cam I drove it on pump gas for four years, crossing the country twice. Never had a problem with detonation. I did initial timing with a vacuum gauge and it worked real well.

 

That sounds like what i did. I don't remember using guide plates. But it has been a while and several engines ago.

 

Every thing rocker wise is almost the same as BBC including the studs, I've only had to hunt up 1.6 to 1 rockers for one engine and that's because of the big gnarly cam I used in it. I usually change to 3/8 hardened push rods but just use the stuff Summit sells.

 

I think PAW put themselves in the hole by sending out telephone book sized catalogs (for free).

..I still treasure my old PAW catalog, easy to use and compare apples to apples.

And still relevant in this day and age


.

 

How was the cam you describe for street use? Who made the cam? Tell me about timing with a vacuum gauge please.

 

The 385 series was a replacement for both the FE and MEL. First installed in the T-bird as a 429 and Lincoln as a 460 in '68. The 429 became the standard motor in the T-bird in '69 as the 390 went away, and was optional in full-size Fords/Mercs replacing the 428. Replaced the FE in the intermediate line in '70, the Mustang/Cougar in '71. The 460 became an option in full-size Mercs in '72, Fords in '73. By '74 the 429 was gone from cars, replaced by the 460. It was around this time that Ford finally reduced the FE to just the 360 truck motor and started using the 385 motor in the trucks. I believe you could still get a truck version 429 in '74, but by '75 the 429 was gone for good.

 

@Crazy Steve Steve thanks. I can always depend on you for ford info. I pretty much quit playing with Fords by about the mid '70s except for the older stuff and not much of that for my own purposes.

 

All '68-'71 429/460 heads have screw in studs. The C8VE are regular Lincoln heads, not CJ's. They have a positive stop for the rail rockers. They are easily replaced with a 3/8" stud for adjustable rockers and guide plates.

The BBC rockers will work, and most rocker companies sell the same part number as big Ford and big Chevy rockers. The ratio is close (1.72 vs 1.73) but the length isn't quite right, so the roller tip isn't centered on the valve stem. Rockers made specifically for the 429/460 will work a little bit better.

For the D3VE heads, Ford raised the valves to make a 96cc closed chamber. The port floor was raised with the valve, but port openings stayed in the same place. This makes the exhaust port rather cramped. The '72 heads should have the same port as the early heads.

These are ported, but you can still see how much higher the D3 port floor is. It does have a nicer short side radius though.

 

Thanks Relic Stew for all the good info and pics. How do the C8VE heads compare in port shape to the two that you have shown? I think the C8VE heads have approximately 75 cc combustion chambers. Are the CJ heads better in any way?

 

Cobra-jet heads have a D0OE casting number.

 

Be warned if you rebuild your C8 heads it may cost we'll over $1000. By the time you hot tank, surface , larger valves, top the guides for adjustable valve train, 7/16 rocker studs, springs, retainers,...... Not worth it in my opinion.

Save up for some used e-Brock's, tfs, ford racing,.....

 

The C8VE, C9VE, and D0VE heads have essentially the same ports and chambers. The differences are in the Thermactor air port routing, port bumps, and other minor differences.

The CJ heads have slightly smaller 71cc chambers for 11.3 compression with flat tops. The valves are larger, 2.25/1.73 vs 2.08/1.65. The ports are much larger. Today, CJ heads are mostly for the "numbers correct" muscle car restorer. With some port work and the CJ size exhaust valves, the stock heads flow just as well. Aluminum heads are better yet. The Ford Motorsport aluminum Super Cobra Jet heads are a decent deal. The Edelbrock heads aren't anything special other than being lighter than iron.

Here is a CJ gasket on a stock head to show the port difference.
The valve cover bolts breach the end intake ports on a CJ, creating a significant vacuum leak. The bolts have to be run back in to do a hot valve adjustment.

 

Wow! That is a huge difference in port area. I assume there must be a CJ specific exhaust manifold(s) to go with those heads?

 

You would be limited to about a .540 lift cam without cutting the valve guides also.
Anything more and you'll crush the valve seals.

Cobra-jet exhaust manifolds are unique and run upwards of $600-700 a pair.
D0OE Cobra-jet heads will go for around $1000-1200 for usable cores.

The aluminum heads I mentioned are standard valve layout the super cobra jets from ford racing would require either different Pistons or cut new valve reliefs in your old ones.

 

Those shown are of course, intake ports. I think I mentioned else where that using the Cobra Jet heads requires a matching intake mainafold. I don't know about the exhaust. I put the CJ valves in my '69 460 heads and ground all I could out of the exhaust ports. To try to straighten them. The thing really ran good. But 466 inches in a small car should be a fun ride anyday.

 

Well, I sure am getting an education here. I had no idea that the CJ heads and manifolds were so different from the C8VE, C9VE, and D0VE heads. For what I am doing, just trying to put some life in a Lincoln smogger motor put in a 1973 F-100 shortbed, I think the C8VE heads will be fine. That plus some headers and a moderate cam with proper advance.

Is it worthwhile to grind away the reactor bump downstream of the exhaust valve on the C8VE heads? It is ugly but seems like it would not impose much restriction since it is shrouded by the valve guide boss anyway.

 

Oh yeah well duh. I didn't notice the head orientation so spaced it out regarding intake ports/exhaust ports. Are the CJ exhaust ports equally huge?

 

They are bigger than the early 460 heads. Which look pretty big to me. But the turn down in the casting chokes it down smaller then it looks. But look here. My single four barrel '69 Lincoln 460, with normal and cheap hop up tricks, went 197.917 at Bonneville in my Vega 25 years ago. 460 cubic inches is a lot. It has to be pretty fast. If i was going to do another 460, I would mill the exhaust ports off to the rocker cover rail and make and install raised port port plates. I did a couple of 351 CJ heads that way. Easy enough to do. Mostly just costs time. Really opens up the exhaust ports. I also did a Pontiac head and oddly enough a Studebaker head. Made the Stude head a 4 exhaust port head instead of 3. I don't know why more people don't do this. I have a pair od closed chamber 460 heads I don't need. Pedestal rockers though.

 

Take those emission bumps out of the exhaust ports. Put a 268 comp cam in it with 2500 stall and roll on... Ive made 600 horse on a set of HIGHLY modified D3VE heads and had to work to do it. was building on major budget, and had to do with what I had. Take 20 off the head and 10 off the block and call it good with some flat tops. Honestly I think it would be a waste to use the CJ heads on there. For what your wanting in a grocery run around machine. The 280 to 292 duration with .530 lift and roller rockers gets you real good lope and still streetable barely. vacuum is going to only run about 14 on your best day. barely enough for power brakes.

 

Okay RichFox, I have to ask since I am such an inquisitive sort of guy. If you mill the exhaust flange back to the rocker cover and attach a new plate with improved ports how do you attach the grafted plate to the head? Weld, bolt or?? What is the grafted plate made of? I won't be doing this myself but I am curious as to how you did it. Thanks.

 

The plate I put on the Clevelands was a cast aluminum part made for that use. It was held on with several allen screws into the new port face of the head, and the head bolts outboard of the rocker cover edge. On the Stude I fabricated a steel device to extend the exhaust ports up and out. Zendog on here took several pictures of this and posted them on the HAMB and Landracing.com in some Studebaker thread. The Pontiac would have been a billet piece of Aluminum of a steel weldment like the Stude, but it never got that far. The Cleveland port mod was pretty common in the 70s and 80s. But it works the same for Pontiac and late Olds engines and any other that the factory cast in a big turn down for exhaust clearance