It must have been a defective bolt because I barely begun to put pressure on it! It snapped clean and flush, so I tried to reverse it with a removale tap & low and behold that peice of shit snapped off too! Could it get any worse? You bet it can! All said and done, body count is 1 tap and 2 titanium drill bits snapped off inside that bolt! I should have heated the bolt but I got a little impatient. Now the only thing I can think to do is take a air chisel and carve it out. Anybody have any better ideas before I go postal on this thing? Rich
weld a bolt to the end of it if ya can get to it. Then back it out. If you can't, take a punch and try and fracture the drill bits/ez out.
Try a product called PB BLASTER.Most auto places carry it.I have found it at checker,auto zone pepboys etc .Soak the area and let it sit .Then try again to extract it .good luck
What ROOTHAWG said - weld a nut on top of the broken bolt stub and back it out slowly. Pre-soaking in PB Blaster or something similar wouldn't hurt. Good luck.
If ya broke it off going in it always makes for a fun day! After doing my apprenticeship I got good at removing broken taps, bolts, easy-outs, and drills. Biggest thing I learned was don't break 'em off in the first place but it still happens from time to time. If what the other guys suggested don't work, find a machine shop supply house and tell them you need a CARBIDE center drill(a #1 or #2). These things are pricy and will break easily so be careful, but they cut through alot of hard shit if played with nicely. Make sure that you get it started in the CENTER (this is critical) of the broken whatever you have in the hole. This is the pilot for the next thing you gotta buy...a carbide drill (either solid or tipped) use a drill that will remove as much material as you feel safe with but not so big that if it wanders it waste the threads in the head. The softest thing that is in that mess infront of you is the threads in the head!The key to this is light pressure and peck away at it taking frequent stops to clean out the debris. I used dental picks to remove the chunks as I went so they don't jump out and bite the end off of the drill! This is how a machine shop would do it. I used to get bolts out real fast this way. An oldtimer showed me how to use a carbide drill and blast through the center of a hardened bolt then go get a Lefthand twist drill 1/32 bigger and start drillin' it. The drill would grab and since it was a lefty it would unscrew the bolt as long as the pressure was releived (That was done when I drilled the center of the bolt out) Slicker than gorilla snot. Of course if the head was off it would be alot easier! Good Luck! We've all been there!
broke a couple rocker studs once...did almost exactly what curly suggested. .may be possible to keep the drill straight hanging over a fender, (if thats your case)...couldnt do it. so yanked the head off. whole ordeal took me about 5 hrs, including the trip to get the specialty bits.
Ok, I forgot to mention, the top of the bolt is mince meat! The threads are already ruind. It's a f!#@%$* mess. I've alreadytaken out about 2/8 of the bolt. The rest is just jammed and mangled. I'll try the carbide and see if I can drill it out size by size. Will the head take a new tap and thread? Or is it too thick? Man I could just kick myself for not welding some thing to it when I had the chance. Will the metal shavings that fall though the bottom of the bolt do any harm internally? Should I remove the head and blow it out after removing the bolt? Thanks for the help!
There's a place that I've dealt with locally (Santa Ana, CA)that drills it out as large as they can w/o damaging the threads and then removes the rest with a laser... pretty slick. Since I found them, I don't mess with broken studs/bolts etc. It's not worth the aggrivation. It's a "tap and drill removal" operation. See if you can find one near you or if you wanna ship it, I'm sure my guy will do it for you. Of course, it would have to be off the car.
Thanks Rix. If it get's to the point that it's obvious I can't get it out, I'll for sure get intouch with ya.
If you feel you have to take the head off do it. I wouldn't think twice about it, but I'm not you. Your call. Since the threads are already mangled have a shop put a Heli-coil or thread-sert in it. I do not know what kinda motor ya got or how much meat is around the threads. W/O seeing what ya got I can't say what the falling chips are going to do but usually Murphy's law wins. This is why I'd take the head off. Want to save yourself even more aggravation? Take the head off and take it to a machine shop and have them get the crap out and put the heli-coil in. May cost ya a little up front but think of the aggravation you already have and are ya ready for a 5 hr battle? A good machinist can get this done fast. I used to do this for customers while they waited! I can usually get a busted bolt out in 5-10 minutes and a new helicoil put in in 5. The hard part is setting up the Bridgeport and getting the tools ready (1/2 hr). Wish you were closer... We'd be drinking a beer and laughin'about it by now!
Thanks for the advise Curly. I'll make some calls tomorrow. At this point I'd rather pay some one to do it. I'll probably end up doing more damage if I keep at it. It's a 350 by the way.
Man that's a horrible feeling when you break a bolt off like that. I would have to agree that you might as well pull the head and take it the machine shop if it's as fucked up as you say it is. Good luck, Rich.
Bass! Hey brother, you were going to be one of my calls tomorrow! You have any leads on someone who might be able to tackle this job?
I shoot them with all the usual lube stuff and then take a small chisel, about half as wide as the diameter of the bolt, and work at it ith a small hammer tapping on it in and in a direction that would screw it into the hole (unless it broke because it's bottomed out because it was too long a bolt in the first place) that usually knocks it loose into the hole. Then I start tapping it the other way to screw it out. The initial chisel work puts a shallow slot it to use for tapping it out with te chisel. Works about 90% of the time for me.
I had a broke off stud in a transmission. I broke out the dremel and carved a flat notch into the stud and then use a flat head screw driver to work it out. Came out for me. Sounds like yours is REALLY stuck.
again, id have to agree with curly... i did it by myself, as a result my back was completely tweaked for a couple weeks, my friend had to put the head on for me, all i did was torque the bolts. i learned 2 things... never use old rocker studs on high tension springs, they WILL break (broke a total of 4 studs on different occassions @rpms <= 3000)... 2nd, if it happens again, yank the head off and take it to a machine shop.
they have given you some good advice,, there may have been other ways or retrieving the broken bolt but, if the hole is getting bloodied you may as well call in the support crew.. only thing i would add now is,, replace all the other bolts. If they are the chrome flashy kind you may well have a bad lot or inferior heat treated bolts,,, be a shame to put the head back on and have another failure.. i always replace bolts that i take out if they are in areas that i cant get to easily to get them out,, places like exhaust manifolds, water pumps etc.. i figure a couple of extra bucks might save me some hi dollar grief.. just good cheap insurance,,, save the old ones and use em for emergency , mock up work, the kids gocart, little red wagons, lawn mowers, or sling shot ammo bob
Weld. Put a washer over the hole. get down there with a mig welder, and deposit some weld on the bolt remnants. It will not stick to the cylinder head. Build up until you fill the hole and get the washer welded to the bolt. then deposit some more until you have this big blob of weld that you can grab with some vise grips. gently try and move it a little one way then the other. It will move. Once it moves a little you can gradually increase the movement until you can wind it out. Done it loads of times. Mart.
a piece of flat iron,7-8" long,with a hole in the end.. place the hole over the broken bolt,and weld.. Use good heat,and be sure to start welding in the center of the hole. Get your favorite hammer,and give the flatiron piece a few good punches.. Up it goes,much helped by the heat from the welding. Good luck,broken bolts sux.
I recently came across a book on how to build a metal disintegrator. No, it's not science fiction! This is what the big machine shops use to get busted taps and drills out of expensive castings. The thing is nothing more than a vibrating carbon electrode that is hooked to an arc welder. The electrode itself is hollow to allow a flow of water for flushing out the metal fragments. The plans look easy and the material cost, according to the author, was minimal (I think it was less than $150). If I had an arc welder, I'd build one just to see if the thing really works! Oh, the book can be found at lindsaybks.com. There's a bunch of other neat Do-It-Yourself projects and other old technology related books, too!
Dude it's called an EDM machine! Stands for electrodischarge machining. It's a little more in depth than that but the principal is close. Electrode is usually graphite, the same thing as pencil lead. Big brother says pencil lead is no longer allowed to be made from lead. Instead of vibrating, the arc is very controlled and "burns" away at what ever it "Touches". It really never touches anything or it would ground out(usually has a .002-.009 overburn depending on amperage setting). The fluid is a watersoluble oil mix and it flushes away what it has burned. They usually submerge the entire part to prevent starting a fire or really flush the piss out of the area. I ran one of these for a few years. Dirty, oily mess! But your description is the best I've heard from someone not in the trade!!!!
Great ideas from every body! Now what do I do? The welder in me wants to give it a go! The rest of me say's "Don't f#!% it up Rich"! Decisions! Decisions! Thanks for the great ideas. I love this board.
Pull the head, sounds like you got a mess, don't want to further complicate by getting metal in the engine, plus easier to work with since you got some hard stuff broke off in there. Might try a cutting torch, blow out bolt/drill bit etc remains. Be careful, don't heat head. Has worked for me before. I share your frustration today. Spent all my free time putting 350/350 in a 32 I recently bought. Thought engine was good, got it where could turn over with starter, no compression # 4 cylinder. Pulled head, bent exhaust valve. Now I'm gonna do what I should have down, pull it down & rebild complete. Got in a hurry, just wanted to drive the car. Oh well, now I can put the cam, etc in that I was gonna do later. Good luck!
Take some advice from "Groundless Frank Kowalski" and check to see if the little plastic cover is still on the negative batterey cable. If that doesn't help, try some of the good suggestions that have already been made. p.s. "That explains the goatee."
here's a website dealing with this (pretty much what's been described above, but with pix): http://idisk.mac.com/forever4/Public/studremoval.htm here's an old post. this was before the "changeover, so we can't access it anymore. this is a txt file. you can't post doc files here. therefore it's a little hard to read, but you'll get it easy enough. this is also where i found the link above: ok, i've edited this. seems like i can't attach a txt file, either. sorry. if anyone wants to see this file e-mail me at the address in my profile and i'll forward this file to you as an msword file.
Phantom, Call my Dad or go by his place and tell him whats happened. Nine outa ten times he can help ya or he will know who can. Ed
couple of trick i have learned on getting broken bolt out. a good stick welder not mig with royal 220-m rod. Its puts a super stong weld and heats the bolt just right to make it easy to pull out when you weld the nut to the top. The mig just doesnt seem to heat the same as the stick.... and get your self snap ons left handed bits and extracters. worth there weight in Gold.
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