So my flathead's not stuck.....now what??

*update*

Heads are off........5 stuck valves.........Stuck good.....3 seized closed, 2 stuck open.....

Heads came off great, didn't even have to pry. I'm going to remove the intake to get some PB blaster in from that direction.

 

Since you've the heads off drain the oil. Take a good
look at the oil. It's been sitting for over 40 years' all
the junk in it has settled to the bottom of the pan. If it
is really cruddy, pull the pan and check the screen on
the oil pump. A plugged screen causes expensive
headaches. I know, I found out the hard way. Better
yet pull the pan and check the bearings, you've gone this
far. Do it right.
Good luck.
Matt

 

i have a 36 flathead that sat for 35 years, they said that the motor was ***** out.
just got it to turn over, spark ,fuel pulled the pan, about 1/2 qt of sludg. also you could not look through the oilpump screen. put it back together and i am driveing it . the more i drive it the better it runs

 

3 Seized closed and you could turn it over by hand? You may have other problems as well. Does the cam turn when you turn the motor over? If so you may have flat spots on the cam for those valves.

 

Stripped cam gear????????

 

I am guessing not since the other valves supposedly work. I know it doesn't take much to keep an engine from turning over, stuck open valves are no problem but I don't think you could spin past a stuck closed valve. I have now taken apart 5 of them in much worse condition though and I can't spin the cam until all the valves are free.

 

*update*

I'm a dumb***.......they werent seized closed......i wasn't turning it over enough to cycle through the strokes....

the stuck valves are now just sticky, sticking every now and then, but getting better.

 

I am in the camp of those that would have just started it up after turning it over by hand. That way I will know what is wrong before I pull it apart. Such as noisy piston or lifter, low oil pressure, etc. I loosened up stuck valves by working with penetrating oil though the valley.

But you are past that step so since you have the heads off, look for cracks from the valve seats to the cylinder bores. Also signs of moisture in the combustion chambers/rust pitting. May as well find out those problems before you go any farther.

Neal

 

Kroil, is the stuff no need for much else imho. Usually you can't find it at retail outlets try fleet farm or their web site (Kano Industries) http://www.chemicalregister.com/Kano_Laboratories_Inc/Supplier/sid15694.htm
Good Luck

 

I agree with Marlett... I had a '39 that had set since 1957. I pulled the pan, cleaned out the sludge and the oil screen. squited a little oil in the cylinders, put in new points and hung a "Okie Gas Tank" on the hood. Fired it up and it ran great.

I sure wouldn't be pulling heads on an old flattie if I didn't absolutely have to.

 

too late..........pulled the intake too..........two lifters are mushroomed.......

 

anybody wanna come over and rebuild my flathead?

 

Holy ****!! That is not "why", that is "because"...the lifter (a very
light hollow shell, like a race lifter) COLLAPSED as engine turned because it could not open a thoroughly stuck valve! Unstoppable force, immovable object!!
This is not nearly as bad as it seems, but now heads come off...we're looking at probably $50 and a weekend. The stuck ones gotta come out, 2 new lifters, likely but not certainly 2 new valves and guides after you pull them and check. Yank heads, we can walk you through yanking the two stuck valves and doing a quick transplant of the lifters.

 

This would be easy here, since I have all the cool tools for yanking that stuff...is anyone near you with tools and experience??

 

I'm checkin' right now. I know a couple guys with flatty experience. How hard are the tools to come by?

 

Can't see well enough to ID your valve ***emblies, but looks like one of the late types with straight/small valve stems, not mushrooms... if so no necessity for anything special on valves that move...which you ain't got. You have two stuck close on the collapses, some more stuck open...so find someone with valve bar as a minimum. If possible, some one with a way of yanking guide retainers without moving guide first and some thing like KD guide extractor will save lots of bloodshed.

 

good thread and info!

One question that I have though, Someone earlier mentioned "not running the flathead without coolant for more than 10 seconds"

My thought was, will the engine really get that hot in only 10 Seconds without coolant to do damage? guess I wouldn't want to find out personally but just wondering what everyone though on this question?
thx

 

I don't know if this is going to be just fixing a couple valves. I see lots of rust in the intake ports and many of the valves look really rusty. What this usually means is that even if you get things un-stuck, the seats and valve faces are probably very rusted and pitted - which means they are NOT going to seat worth a ****.

You've taken that motor apart to this point, why not just pull it out, take ALL the valves/guides out of it, pull it all apart, do a hot tank, inspect everything, etc.. At least you'll then have a MUCH better idea how far you need to go to freshen it up (hopefully at low cost) - to make it a reliable and well running engine. You might get away with just a valve-job and a couple lifters . . . probably break the cylinder glaze (hone) and some new rings. Also, you'll have new gaskets all the way around (which sure helps reduce the oil leaks you're probably going to have). Also, if you have the early mushroom valves and split guides - seriously consider replacing them with the 49-53 versions with solid guides (much better setup - but a couple hundred more $$$).

You've done lots of the hard work - might as well finish the job correctly . . . it can usually be done for a reasonable amount of money and time.

 

Hey Bruce . . better get them peepers checked - sure looks like early mushroom valves to me! If I had it apart, I'd replace these valves/guides with the 49-53 straight stem versions. I know . . . more money, but you'll be glad you did.

 

probably will be heading this direction. the valves themselves on the seat side are clean without rust. But, there is alot of crust in the runners.

I'm actually really surprised at how well this motor has come apart. NO BLOOD BLISTERS OR SPLIT KNUCKLES YET!!!!

I'll probably yank the motor, pull it apart all the way, and take it to the machine shop this week. My drop axle and spindle arms should be here today, so I'll have something to work on while the block is being cleaned.

I can't believe how much you guys have taught me so far!

 

That's because you haven't got to the 'valve removal' stage as of yet . . . the party is just starting! If you don't have a high-quality valve-bar - you should pick one up. Don't worry about saving these old valves - if you need to get 'violent' with them, no problem.

Things like 'plasma cutters' can be very useful to cut the old springs/stem so you can pull the valves out, then you can drive the guides out through the bottom (much easier than trying to pull them if they are seriously stuck).

Given that I don't see much sludge in the valley, you might get lucky and they come out as they should - with just a valve bar and the removal of the horse-shoe clips (I wouldn't take that bet though!).

 

I was really wishing that it wouldn't take much to make it a runner, but the more I think about it, the more I think about it, the more I would like to take my time, check everything out, maybe install a mild cam, lap the valves and seats, etc.

but it would be cool to get it running in short order.

 

hahaha....yea, i read kevin lee's (grimlock) adventure in flathead valve removal......

As far as the valve removal tool, where can I get one, or should I look for one that comes with a mechanic that knows how to use it???

When I pulled the intake, I was reeaaaaaally surprised at how "clean" and "new" the valley looked, and the only oil in it was the marvel and pb blaster.

So as long as i have some pro's attention, what would be a good mild build for this motor, retaining as many stock parts as possible?

 

Don't buy the valve bar from Speedway unless you only want to use it once and throw it away! they are cheap ****! spend a little more and get one made in the USA or at least something with quality steel in it.
seems like Reds Headers sells one?? looks good in the picture but havent used that one personally.
I found an old style one on thE Bay and it's made in USA- So it should last me a lifetime! plus it had probably already served one or two lifetimes with it's prior owner/s

good luck
Josh

 

I'm still looking for the model of valve remover that comes with the operator!

 

I'm always surprised at the replies advising "soak 'er down and give 'er a whirl" when it comes to a vintage engine that has sat for this long. The pics clearly show enough to know that this engine needs to come out and be properly rebuilt. The valve train damage indicates that there will also be cam damage. The corrosion warrants a tear down.

You certainly have the mechanical ap***ude to do it yourself, only depending on finding a flathead experienced machine shop available. If you have to crate it up and send it to someone experienced, it needs to be done and will be worth it in the long run. If there are no flathead folks nearby, I still say do it yourself. Maybe you will soon be the "go to" flathead guy in your area.

 

Where's the fun in that! just pull them out, any that give you problems? just torch out the valves and drive the guides down and out the bottom with a large impact socket and hammer.

save your money and the flathead guru's time for machine work and rebuild.

Josh

 

My favorite is the KD, then the Plomb and Snap on, which are similar to each other...
My monitor only has one pixel per valve...
I'm sliding over to takeitapart too, but with reservations. Any machinest's opinion is going to turn this into a $3000 party. \First, take it apart and post good pics. I think this engine is going to be a mixed bag...insides look clean and fresh, outside rusty, outside started crwling down the ports.
See how bores and bearings look, measure and think. New set of '49 type valves and some work might be total need, with luck. Valves firmly enough stuck to crush lifter roof may well have worthless stems and guides! Block seats will likely look good...hardened stuff.

 

Fun project, wish I lived closer to help. Reviving old motors has to be one of the most gratifying things a person can do!

Good luck on your rebuild, you've been given great advice on this thread, keep us posted! Becareful though when you get to the machine shop, things can get real expensive real quick from here!

 

I'm goin after the valves tonight, I'll make my wife come out and video record the event to share the fun.......plus, if she's in the garage with me, there will be someone there to apply pressure to my wounds.