something different turbo 6cyl. whaddya think?

My shoebox is slow as molasses with the stock flathead 6 cyl. It runs well, but it's just slow. Now I'm not looking for 12 1/4 mile times either, just to be able to pass bicyclists would be nice.

of course there's the SBC route, but I wanna do something different.

y-block is an option, easy swap, not to hard to find etc. etc.

I hate to give up on this 6cyl since it runs so well though. I was daydreaming at work today about turbocharging the 6. It's low compression, lots of the flow problems of the flathead design would be overcome if it is under pressure. I was thinking of homemade intake with sidedraft carters on the pressure side. People do it to corvairs that used Carter YHs. Using some smaller turbo, polishing it up and makinga few covers and such to give a more nostalgia look, than the High-tech look.

Give me your opinions, ideas, insults, whatever. I know it's not the easiest or best way to make power, but I like a challenge.

 

BOOM!

 

Tractor pullers have been using Turbo'd Chrysler flatheads for decades. They run mod-stock since Massey-Harris and some Oliver's had Chrysler motors in'em. Flat 6's respond very well to forced induction, turbo's especially. Like you said it helps overcome the stock motor's port deficies. I'd go for it. If I even get around to it, I'm going to turbo the flat 6 in my '55 Plymouth. I think 2 small turbos would work better than one large one because they'll spool up quicker and work better at lower RPMs without as much lag as one big turbo. Plus you can tell people you car is Twin-turbo'd. I'd use draw through over blow threw just because you can use basically stock carbs instead of having to modify them to run pressurized.

-Jeff

 

check out fordsix.com, you'll be suprised the number of guys who are doing shit like that, not as much with the earlier stuff, but lots of squeezed 6's.

 

Dude...call me when you're ready to take on the project. I loooooove fabricating turbo setups, especially on old motors.

A small T3 turbo would work best with the displacement. Under 10psi of boost would be sufficient power without harming the motor. The T3 would have quick spool up, no lag, and can easily be configured to a carb'd, blow through or suck through system.

I'm considering swapping the 170 inliner out of the '61 Ranchito in favor of a 2.3 Turbocharged Inline 4-cyl motor from an SVO Turbo Mustang. Simple, Reliable, & POWERFUL.

Can't go wrong with a turbo. I'm actually building a tiny IHI turbo to mount on my Yamaha SR250, the "Bonsai Bobber".

 

'Course like Hack said, there's a chance you'll blow the bottom end out of the oil pan I don't know how Fords are set up, buit all the Mopar 6 needs is some help with extra crank oiling and a good balance to live happily turbo'd up to 5500 RPM.

-Jeff

 

Get the book "turbocharging" by Corky Bell. It's a wealth of info on the subject. He also has one on Supercharging, if you dig that.

The low compression of the car lends itself well to turbocharging, but don't get crazy boost, 4 or 5 pounds would ROCK that car I bet. And, not much is cooler than that whine...

Cool idea. Take lots of pix as you go!

Jay

 

two small turbos would be too much fabrication and basically overkill on a small displacement inliner. one single T3 can be configured to be efficient up to 400hp. Turbo sizing is the most important thing. Two tiny twins would be cool in the "looks" department, but would do nothing helpful for power. It'd actually take more exhust energy to turn the twins than a larger single turbo.

The T3 turbo is one of the most common turbos and is so easy to build or size to the application.

I say a T3-50 Trim with a .63 A/R Turbine Housing would be radical, it'd be good to 300hp....or a 60Trim for up to 340hp...

 

dont forget to put a intercooler in it. other wise 4 or 5 lbs will still make it go boom

 

T3 as in the T3 used on chrysler 4cyls in the 80's? Well most were mitsu turbos, but my spirit R/t had a garrett on it. what is the a/r of the stock SVO?

 

SVO had a 60/63 i do belive.. i ran one on one of my little honda's that may be a bit to big for the old six he has. i would try tofind a garret off a old volvo or a saab. those are more like 40/45 and should spool preety fast. but most of them are internaly wastegated and boost is normaly set around 7-8 psi stock. but that can be changed by adjusting the length of the rod on the wastegate. or a boost controller on the waste gate vacum source.

 

The internal wastegate is not such a bad thing in my view..one less thing I have to find a place for. On my dodge we threaded the wastegate rod and used a jam nut and sleeve to adjust it.

 

I want in on this project, you know how I like fabricating
stuff.

I missed the truck chop, don't want to miss this one. Now
lets also talk about brake upgrades if that heap is going
to go faster.
TZ

 

There was a link posted here before Bonneville,
of a guy who did a turbo flathead Studebaker.
Lots of good info.





Personally,I'd prefer a supercharger,with an intercooler and EFI for max performance and reliability.
There are used Eaton blowers on Ebay for cheap.

 

Of course Tyler... your signature says it all

[ QUOTE ]

T-n-T Fabrication
We build it so
You can't blow it up


[/ QUOTE ]

sad thing is that I used to have beautifully rebuilt turbo for an early GN (84-85) and my "buddy" sold it for himself on ebay.

 

What the hell? I talk about turboing my 6cyl and Tyler is like... Why???
Rev. Let me know what you want to know about turbos. The first engine I every screwed around with is my Talon 2.0L turbo 4cyl. Right now its over 300hp, would be more if I cared to do anything with it.
I'm not a big fan of the chrysler turbos as they seem to have too much "extra" stuff on them. The mitsubeshi turbos are really cut and dry. Anyway... I would LOVE to see that happen. I am a huge fan of the turbo!

 

the only mitsu turbo that I have had any experience with is the ones they used on chrysler k cars. apparently they had reliability issues there, dunno if it was true. All the cars I've had or worked on have had Garretts.

 

I think the real question is, do you want to drive your shoebox further than around the block anytime in the next couple of years? How much down-time is there going to be while you figure out how to mount the turbos, set them up, work out the bugs, etc.?

And to add insult to injury, a strong 327 or 350 will still run circles around it...that's a fact. Take that how you want...I'm really not trying to rain on your parade here since it IS an interesting idea. I'm just trying to help paint the big picture.

Carry on.

 

Down-time... hmm well that would be a problem if I would ever get any of them on the road in the first place.

Yeah it's a strange idea, and for the most part it's just for the fun of fabricating someting out of the ordinary. I know an sbc would be faster to install and make lots more hp.

I wasn't planning on sinking tons of money into this idea, heck maybe start with some junkyard parts and see how it turns out first, then if I like it, fix it up. If it doesn't work out...v8 time.

 

If you had the tools & supplies I could fab up a complete intercooled turbo system in about 6 hours on a simpl old carb'd setup.

If you're serious about it, let me know...I have a few Garrett T3 turbos waiting to be built.

Turbo's are my game...let's play ball.

 

Here's a link to a cheap inline... 223

I have a lowly 170 in my "big ass" van...moves it out just fine off the line and I still do 75-80 from San Antonio all the way to Dallas...with 3:50 gears! Don't get me wrong...I'm not gonna set any land speed records...but that's what hot rods are for. If you're drivin a custom, speed is highly optional and all that is really important is RELIABILITY. A lot of inlines are as strong, or stronger, than V8's. Just a thought.

 

Another alternative to the turbo idea would be a centrifical crank driven superchager like a Paxton or Vortec. There are plenty of good used ones around now as a result of the Mustang 5.0 boom. Many guys upgrade to larger units and the smaller ones would be suitable for your purpose. I'd go with a "blow through" system. You can use a conventional carb if you enclose it within a box. Paxton has a ready made box for a Holly four barrel if you dont want to make one. You can gear these things to blow whatever boost psi you want by changing pullies. The Ford 226" six has a decent bottom end, and should live with 5-6 psi if the engine is sound and you keep the A/F ratio in line.

P.S. There would be no downtime because you could build your brackets and induction system while the car is on the road. Then when you're ready you do the install. No need to chevyize that car.

 

I dont like belt driven blowers...takes hp to make hp and stress on pulley's & crank.

But that's just me...To each his own...I like free power from exhaust pressure that would normally be dumped outta the tailpipe

 

I like the turbo idea, not OLD OLD traditional but remember that the Mallicoat Bros got banned in the Gasser classes int eh 60s cause their Turbo'ed Willys was too damn fast?!

 

[ QUOTE ]
I think the real question is, do you want to drive your shoebox further than around the block anytime in the next couple of years? How much down-time is there going to be while you figure out how to mount the turbos, set them up, work out the bugs, etc.?

And to add insult to injury, a strong 327 or 350 will still run circles around it...that's a fact. Take that how you want...I'm really not trying to rain on your parade here since it IS an interesting idea. I'm just trying to help paint the big picture.

Carry on.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey you got a problem with mileage makers!?!

Neal0o

 

Turbos are very cool. Im with TexasHardCore on the t3 issue. That would be just about perfect. Any Ford turbocoupe(T-bird), svo mustang, or my favorite, The merkur XR4Ti will have on waiting for you. Intercooling shouldnt be much of an issue unless you really crank up the boost, but will definately be better with one. The flow issues your talking about will not be as big as a problem under boost, but in any force fed situation, flow in and out of the motor is everything. -J.

 

Yeah if you're gonna get the goods from a donor car, might as well grab the little stock intercooler too. Ebay has lot of small cheap intercoolers that will handle the airflow you'll have with a T3.

Can't just bolt up a typical T3 though, it'll need to be re-ringed with a Carbon Seal on the compressor side, rather than the typical Dynamic Ring. Basically this just keeps the turbo from having the oil sucked out of its internals.

Used to, only Rajay turbo's would work on carbs, but Garrett start using carbon seals to expand their market into the carb'd world.

 

[ QUOTE ]
I dont like belt driven blowers...takes hp to make hp and stress on pulley's & crank.

But that's just me...To each his own...I like free power from exhaust pressure that would normally be dumped outta the tailpipe

[/ QUOTE ]

Fair enough Texas. That debate is raging in the "wild and woolley" Pro 5.0 and Outlaw classes in the current Ford heads up racing like Fun Ford and the NMRA events. From what I see there are unbelievable performances turned in by each power adder, turbos, blowers, and nitrous. I just look at the supercharger as an interesting and viable alternative in cases like this Flathead inline six. The imediate just above idle boost is one of the niceities of running a belt driven supercharger, a good characteristic for a street driven vehicle. I got nothing against turbos though, they are awesome when done right. Just ask "Ohio" George Montgomery if he thinks turbos are a great path to sick power levels. Remember his turbo'd Boss 429 Mustang gasser?

 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I dont like belt driven blowers...takes hp to make hp and stress on pulley's & crank.

But that's just me...To each his own...I like free power from exhaust pressure that would normally be dumped outta the tailpipe

[/ QUOTE ]

Fair enough Texas. That debate is raging in the "wild and woolley" Pro 5.0 and Outlaw classes in the current Ford heads up racing like Fun Ford and the NMRA events. From what I see there are unbelievable performances turned in by each power adder, turbos, blowers, and nitrous. I just look at the supercharger as an interesting and viable alternative in cases like this Flathead inline six. The imediate just above idle boost is one of the niceities of running a belt driven supercharger, a good characteristic for a street driven vehicle. I got nothing against turbos though, they are awesome when done right. Just ask "Ohio" George Montgomery if he thinks turbos are a great path to sick power levels. Remember his turbo'd Boss 429 Mustang gasser?

[/ QUOTE ]
Did I seeee NITROUS ??????

 

Thanks for all the info. Great stuff. I'll probably go get some books, but here's some other things I was thnking about..

So... Blow through or drawthrough? How effective is an intercooler on a drawthrough? how necessary is an intercooler? 84-85 GNs and the lame turboed 301 pontiacs didn't use intercoolers and their boost levels were probably close to what I would be using.

It seems like an intercooler on a drawthrough wouldn't be much help since the air wouldn't have gone through the hot turbo yet. Also don't Drawthroughs kinda screw up the fuel atomization? What is required of a carb to be presurized like in a blow through system?

What about oil lines to and from the turbo? or is that only certain turbos?