I purchased 2 quarts of Omni LV ployester primer/filler...MX245. Question is, has anyone else used this stuff, I am super dissatisfied with it. Mainly because the paint store dude answered my questions like he had heard them and knew the ropes. I told him my old finish had millions of little s****es and "pock marks" in it and I was looking for a high build primer that would fill these up so I didnt have to sand them all down. He pointed out the poly stuff and said just scuff the old finish up real good and shoot...thats exactly what I did. Well it didnt fill at all hardly, infact there are lots of spots that showed up after the primer was put on that couldnt be seen before. Next question is, how much should it take to spray a whole car....again paint dude says 2 quarts will do the job and it will be real thick. Well, two quarts did the front clip, the doors, jambs, and parts of the quarters....there was none left to do the roof or trunk lid or another coat for that matter. I really want to go back to the store and demand an explination, but it wont do any good, I already used the **** up. Should I get more of this stuff and apply a coupla more coats, or sand it back down and get a gallon of basic high build primer and use it instead? BTW the poly stuff dries super fast and the reaction heats up the paint cup pretty good, I had a small amount of the poly left in my gun and I set it down for a coupla minutes, came back and the stuff was like putty inside....so I pretty much ruined my spray gun too.
I have used a product called Polysurfacer by Sikkens, which is their high build sprayable polyester filler. Every brand has their own version. The thing about Polysurfacer is it goes on really nicely, and sands better than any other product I have ever used on a car (its almost like sanding drywall mud). I used it to do the final "skim" coat on my 47 ford after the chop. I did about 4 coats, for a build of around 1/8", and it took 2 quarts, and I have a business coupe, which is the shorter roof. I dont see how 2 quarts of anyones sprayable filler will do a whole car. I am looking for an alternative to Polysurfacer, as its very expensive (around $60 a quart). Evercoat makes a similar product, called Slick and Sand. Its sold by the Gallon, and I think runs about $60 a gallon. The guy that chopped my car, uses it, and loves it. Its not as high build as the Polysurfacer, but the extra coat or 2 needed to get the same build will still keep it much more affordable. I would definately check it out.
We use it all the time and like it for the most part. The amount of hardener needed is only about 2% by weight. It should be sprayed with a 2.5 tip and you should apply 2-3 coats. That should be a lot of mil thickness. The biggest problem we have is when the product is not stirred. Don't depend on a shaker only.
Chad...Im a little confused about your post....you said it took only 2 quarts to do your car? Forgive me if its obvious Im still kinda PO'ed about this whole thing. couple more things...the car is a 53 Chevy 2 dr. I've had these quarts in my shop for a few weeks, I procrastinated using the stuff till I was sure I was ready. When I say ready, that means when I judged that there was only little stuff left to fill and I would leave that up to the primer. in that time I did alot of reading on it and other poly primers...then about an hour before I sprayed it I took both cans to the paint store and had them shaken....then I stirred the **** out of em both before and after adding the hardner.
I used the sikkens stuff too and loved it although it is pricey.I worked in an independent body shop that a friend of mine owns during the hail season when he's real busy and this stuff was a big time saver.As to how far the stuff will go it just depends on how much build your looking to get.
Did you use a hvlp gun to spray it or an old school gun? The old school guns can be VERY inefficient, as in paint everywhere but the car.
Also did you block it after you sprayed it? I only ask this because alot of people don't understand the process.They think it just fills low areas and such but you always have to build it up to get down where it's level.I'm not saying you don't it's just you would be amazed at the amount of people that don't understand.
No, I havent sanded yet....but, I can see that its not thick enough to do so anyways....the two quarts barely covered any thing...there were a few spots that I really layed it on and those seem to look ok....Im guessing my problem here is not enough materials. I see now that its going to take many coats to do the trick. Now....would it be ok to get another brand of poly primer...maybe the evercoat or something and use it over what I have already? Thank you everyone for your imput...all of your resposes have been very helpful!!!
weve used a product that sounds a lot like the one youve described...it may be the same i cant remember but it too about 6 quarts to do 2 coats on a whole car.
Yeah put some more on then block it and it should fill the small scratches and stuf just fine.I like sticking with the same stuff through a jobb but everyone has their own opinion.I've never used the omni stuff but I see it at the paint store all the time and they sell the **** out of it.
In my amature experience, I found that I had to spray it, block it out, respray the bad spots, block them out, sometimes three or four times to have the low spots/scratches go away. Be patient, it just takes time and perseverence. J.
Right on everyone....after reading all of these post I've calmed down alot....Im just gonna go to the paint store tommorrow and give that counter guy the ****-eyes for fibbin to me!
Polyester Primer is my fave...the OMNI stuff is some of the best I have used ironically..buuuut you need to have about 2 GALLONS to do a whole car. I have sprayed 2 G's at one time numorous times. It is not like a a urethane. You can spray as much as you want non stop and it wont solvent pop like a urethane, and then start blocking it with 80 grit. I have been working at a resto shop for a couple years and I am pretty used to the stuff. Also you cant put it over etch. It needs to be over raw bondo or cured epoxy, or the "etch, pre-polyester coat, then poly" process. well good luck, if you have any Q's feel free to ask. I love the stuff......
I really like the finish pro 2K poly high build primer $70. gallon, $30. for hardener. I am doing the 55 F100 in black..............3 coats HVLP, guide coat, block, repeat. On my 3rd gallon now but the results are worth the cost. lots of surface area on this truck. Be patient and trust the guide coat. I am using a red primer fog coat on the yellow 2K, works great. Dave
Try transtar it will do the same as others a is less then $20 a quart,and no other additives to purchase
Let me just add to this the fact that you should not top coat over polyester primer, its the same as bondo you need something over it. I like to put urathane surfacer over it then final block sand then seal it and finally the topcoat of your chouce. I had a reaction with a german brand poly over DP 90 once, it never cured, had to strip it off a **** load of fibergl*** parts. Since then I stick to the same brand materials: all ppg.
At the risk of sounding like an arrogant ***hole........ There's no magic spray-on ANYTHING that's gonna subs***ute for good bodywork or diligent sanding and prep. If y'all have wavy panels---WORK 'em till they are straight! If you have pits/chips/scratches---sand or STRIP 'em to bare metal! Piling thick primer is only adding to the total substrate thickness....which most likely leads to paint failure(unless you block most of it off) That in itself explains shiny paint hazing over, peeling, blistering, bubbling, and sand scratch swelling in many cases...... Why work hard only to have a ****ty lookin' job in six months?? Besides, time is cheaper than materials---UNLESS you're doing this for a living....and most HAMBers are doing this as a p***ionate hobby, right? Sometimes it's just easier to bite the bullet and do more....like going to bare metal .....or wiping that one extra coat of filler....or blocking the primer one more time.... 30 years of this doesn't make me an expert, but I HAVE learned how to screw stuff up!
I use Evercoat Slicksand. Good stuff, Easy to spray using a 2.2 tip, thinned 10% with acetone. It does set up quickly, so you have to mix, spray, and clean your gun asap after final squirt. $55 a gallon.
hello all iam new around here just thought i would ad my thoughts i agree if you can strip the panel and rework it thats the best way to deal with it but one primer that i like is evercoat slicksand i have had good luck with it over the years and never had anything come back good luck with the project henryg***er
This stuff RULES----------------> http://www.expresscomposites.com/duratec.html make sure you clean your gun out fast...
That looks like some good stuff. Can you post the tech sheet (mixing-spraying-recoating-sanding-curing-etc). Sometimes there are some cool deals on industrial products that will work real good on hotrod stuff. It looks like you found a real nice hi-build coating. overspray
Thanks, Rash. It looks like most of the other products mentioned above, and at a good price. (This one seems to be marketed as a fibergl*** mould surfacer.) As with the other polyester primer surfacer/fillers, you will need to coat with a good sealer (urethane or enamel based) that will be compatible, with the paint/topcoat that you choose to apply over them. Temperature is critical as it affects the cure time on both ends. On a hot day the 15-18 minute pot life, or sprayable time, could sneak up on you in only a few minutes causing the product to gel in the gun. Always check the directions for each polyester primer to avoid application problems. Also, some polyester based primers should NOT be wet sanded. This should be listed in the directions or on the tech sheet. overspray
overspray- I've used this on a few projects and it works Fantastic... Moriarity gave me the heads up on it... I used it on a couple of my drivers to try it out and it holds up great- you do have to top coat it- It will lock up fast, I only mix one 'cup' at a time... and spray with a 2.2 tip Tuck
Slicksand is the best i have tried,i used the poly primer many years...ruined my develviss!It was good stuff though,as long as you cleaned up quick after spraying.In the end...whatever stuff you use,you still need to prep as much as possible ....even for shooting primer/filler.You end up busting your *** before or after the spraying.I found its best to get the surface clean and cherry before spraying anything,saves money in the end,and a more satisfying job.In the end,I say," there are no real shortcuts,just deadends".
When spraying the really thick primers go buy a $20.00 buffulo or astro paint gun or the cheapest one you can find they ussually have big tips on them and if it dries in the gun throw it away.
my boss and i use the Polysurfacer by Sikkens. hes been painting for about 25 yrs. says thats the best stuff hes ever found. we used the evercoat stuff on a boat one time. sanded a little hard. the sikkens **** sands real nice too. this is how we do it from start to finish. take a panel straighten it as much as you can. then plastic filler the whole thing. nock it all down (the cars were never straight from the factory). then we hit it with the sikkens stuff. hit that with 150 then with 220. take it down to where you see thru it almost. the metal will show through and any filler there. this stuff will fill pinholes too pretty good but not perfect. then we spray it with PPG K36. nock it down with 220 the same way as the sikkens. do this a couple more times. then the last time nock it down with 320 then 400. perfection. we have a 47 cad i just did this way. black, its perfect. no one has seen a thing wrong with it yet. hope this helps.
I have used the OMNI Polyester Primer and a few other brands and you really need to use a 2.0 or larger gun a 2.5 works the best is sands easy and goes on smooth. I have since stop using the polyester primers do haveing problems with it later not ahearing right. I now use PPG CRE Primer (Corrosion Resistent Epoxy) it is a Commerical coating, its cheap $40-$50 a gallon for both parts, its tintable, builds better then the Polyester plus its a corrsion barrier, can spray over bare metal and not have any problems with it, only dislikes it sands a little hard and you need to thin it done a bit to help it sand better. All the shops around here (southern Colorado) have started using it instead of the Polyester primers.
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