Technical Spring hitting dropped axle 2 weeks with no progress help

I have spent two weeks looking for an answer to my problem. 1 have a 1936 axle under a 1930 model a rod. The original purch was welded and filled and a new perch was welded o. 34 1/2 center to center with a 2 or 2 and 1/4 in spring depending on how many times it has been painted. 1.75 in shackles. The spring sits on the axle. I have ordered 2 springs from Speedway and they drop all the way to the axle. One was 29" and I couldn't get it to reach even with clamping it near flat. I got a 31 1/4 it fit but once the wheels were on and the car is on the ground the same problem. All Speedway had was a 1 3/4 wide spring. I'm lost I need the spring to sit in position with around 45° perches angles. I'm lost. I'm about ready to put a 2" trailer axle in the transverse position with a heater spring rate. What am I doing wrong?

 

What do you mean about the perch? Is it suicide axle? Got any pictures.

A 36 axle and with a spring over, should use a model A length front spring. Are you replacing the main leaf? Or the whole pack? If just the main leaf, it's likely you need to add some leaves back onto other areas of the pack. Sounds like it's to soft to me.

 

Post picture

 

A 1928-36 axle has spring perch centers at 36 1/2". The spring over axle 28-34 has 31 1/2" eye to eye centers. That combo will give you the 45 degree shackle angle and the spring will not hit the axle. Don't understand your perch centers.

 

Someone made the perches and the sit lower

 

What does it look like if you put your jack stands under the axle?
If you had shocks on it , the axle would not drop so far as to flip your shackles.

 

No matter the idea behind the strangeness that what was done; the perches need to be high enough over the axle that the shackles can swing all the way down to 90 degrees to the axle similar in height to stock perch bolts. Once they are tall enough; you should be figure the correct length spring even if you need to have a suitable main leave made.

Personally I would see if you could step back and use stock perch bolts located in the normal axle bosses, even if it meant getting another axle. '33-'36 axles are not rare or scarce.

 

Yeah, I don’t think you are going to find anything that will work with that mess. The perch isn’t high enough. Take it all out and find some good original parts. They aren’t expensive.

 

A picture is worth a thousand words. I'm a bit lost for words right now based on those pics!

As Rich B has said there doesn't look to be enough clearance over the axle. Suggest the spring is disconnected and the shackle rotated as if in operation to visualise the problem.

Chris

 

When can we start talking about the steering arm that looks rather long, by virtue of the rod end being just above the original perch mount, ie too far inboard, and that it looks rather flimsy? Its extra length would also require a shorter pitman arm which I'd imagine hasn't been thought through if the spring mount is anything to go by!

Chris

 

Whoever installed those perches put them too close to the axle for a spring-over-axle setup. Your spring may or may not be too long, and as @Happydaze pointed out there's some potentially bad stuff going on with that steering arm.

You're honestly probably best off to start with different parts(whether used or new) rather than trying to make sense of all the questionable decisions that were made on these ones. If the same person did the rest of the fab on the car, I'd have someone reliable go over the whole car and tell you what issues they see.

 

YIKES...there is NOTHING right or safe about anything on that front-end...it needs to go.

It appears that the spring perches are welded to the top of the axle...and assume that the bat-wings for the wishbones are also welded on.

There is a reason why the spring perches (and bat-wings) are mounted THROUGH the strongest part of the axle...and not mounted on the part of the axle that's designed to twist/flex.

We won't even get into that draglink/steering arm/brake hose.

Now, I'm the kinda guy (cheap) that tries to make junk work, but I think that's a little too far gone.

 

It sure looks like someone did that to a ‘32 axle , the area between the perch and king pin doesn’t look like the more common Model A or ‘33-‘36 axles.

 

Thanks Mark.

 

That front end is all wrong.

It needs a complete do-over.

 

To echo what everyone else has suggested.
Time for a total tear down. Probably not what you wanted to hear.
The welded on perches are too short and too far in for your spring lengths.
The dropped steering arm is all wrong also. Its end is where the perch needs to go.
Tear it down to its simplest pieces and send pics of them.
Maybe some can be salvaged. Maybe (probably) not, unfortunately.
What does the rear suspension look like?

 

It does look like it could be a 32 heavy!

 

I'm thinking that front crossmember would be worth a second look.

 

Wow. That's a wild mess. Once I got past the crossmember, and started looking at the perches and steering, my eyes started to hurt. Get another axle that hasn't been cobbled up, perches, a real crossmember, and definitely toss the scary looking steering arm. The parts to put this together properly aren't expensive, you'll never get this to work "As-Is".

 

Simple solution:

#1 - CUT THAT FUCKING GARBAGE OFF.
#2 - Find someone with a clue to work on it.

Some things are a matter of opinion, and preference.
But NONE of that garbage is acceptable.

Not trying to hurt your feelings but:
Anyone that would do that, has no business working on cars.
This is a Complete Fucking Death Trap(tm).

Judging by the layer of grime, I'm guessing the weapon has been sitting for a long time.
Hopefully you got it cheap, because it needs a LOT of wholesale changes.

 

I have seen one other like this and it too, was pretty much a mess. If I understand your comments correctly they welded up the perch in the axle making it very difficult if not impossible to put proper perches in there. To save as much as possible here, and the way I fixed the one I did, was to properly weld a Modified Speedway rear perch, (part #91645108), to the axle so that the perch centers, where the shackle goes in, is 34" center to center and 2 3/8: off the axle. These perches are 2 1/4" wide so they need to be pruned to 1 3/4" wide to accept your shackles. Make sure whoever welds these knows how to weld to a forging, preheat is required but not difficult to do.

Assuming you can pull this off you can with a little effort get a reasonably safe front end salvaging the stuff you have. The perches are around $45.

Just for the record, the one I worked on came in because he took out a curb when one of the perch adaptions came apart. He was lucky! Don't count on getting that break. Best of luck, the worlds not coming to an end.

 

Why sugar coat it, tell us what you really think

Chris

 

If I think that speaking up could save a life, I will.

Thank you very much.

 

This is the very reason I've stopped responding to brake threads. Some idiot just wants justification for their poor purchase/advice choices.
You give them correct advice [after slowly pulling your hair out getting information] and they ignore it or half ass it.
Then blame you for their total fuck up.

 

You're getting good advice here. Welded perches? Show of hands, who's running an axle with welded perches? Anyone? No? Even a great weldor would say no, don't do it. Brain food here, imagine the forces of a 2200 lb car at a normal speed when it encounters a bump or Pothole. What would be your guess? The tires don't take up a lot of it, and I'd bet in excess of 12,000 lbs. That might even be light at normal surface road speeds when you consider the momentary leverage of all those parts trying to keep it all in check. These are normal everyday forces all cars encounter. What you just learned came the hard way. In spite of the perceived tone above nobody is here giving you shit, maybe the 40 grit approach seems rough but take heed. Ford hot rod suspension has been figured out 6 ways to Sunday over many decades and Model As are among the most popular. No reinventing or rocket science needed. Good luck and keep us informed. Everyone above is happy to help.

 

You may want to check out some of the info/parts available here:
https://www.peteandjakes.com/
Good luck!

 

A Pete&Jakes catalogue is a must for every new hot rod builder. Tons of great tech advice, as well as any chassis or suspension part a guy could need.

 

Imagine the stuff you can't see.