I bought a set of Speedway spring perch bolts and lower shock mounts. When mocking them ogether with my split wishbone, the threaded shank of the perch is not long enough to get the bottom nut to fully seat. I've included picts to better illustrate the problem. I have a set of castle nuts that I wanted to use in the final assembly, but there's no way they will fit. Speedway advertises these as "longer" to use with lower spring mounts, but the perch bolt doesn't even clear the bottom of the shock mount. I called Speedway but they don't have any tech guys in on Saturday. Anyone else run into this problem?
those prches are required to run just the orginal bones not with the shock mount. they dont make one longe enough to mount the shock with the orginal bones. you would need latter bars or weld a differnt shock mount.
If you are not going to use the spring mount on the end of the bone, why not grind the thick top part of the bone down and rebevel. Should work then.
Bones is right...we went through this a couple of weeks ago. Radius rods and batwings are what those pins are designed for. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. Andy, the thin jam nut could work but it concerns me that Ford used such a large cone nut. Of course, the roads were a lot rougher then too.
I measured the stainless Deuce Factory (DF) perch bolts on my 32. Measuring from the top of the SuperBell tube axle - where the perch flat sits on the 1/8" thick washer, it measures 4 1/4". The bottom of the perch flat on the axle also has a 1/8" thick washer. A commonly done deal so you can fit the same span batwing to either the 2" or 2 1/4" axle. The 4 1/4" perch bolts also carry a DF lower shock mount. The retaining nylock nut is full length and not the thinner jam nut size. The perch bolt extends 3/8" below the bottom of the nylock nut fwiw. I'm guessing Speedway may have tossed a standard length perch bolt into your order. It looks and sounds about right for a perch bolt intended for spring mounting only and not a lower shock mount. Fwiw - the SuperBell lower shock mount is fairly identical to the DF lower shock mount, but the DF mount has more of an angle. In other words, the SuperBell lower shock mount angles the shock more toward the vertical than the DF does. Got pics if that would help.
C9, I bought a set for the T and with the stock bones it was just enough to have threads showing through approx 1/4" with nut installed.
Thanks for the replies. These bolts measure 4.75" from the top of the beveled seat and the end of the shank. That seems like it is the longer version. It does seem made for batwings. I haven't yet cut off the original spring perch and reshaped the bone, but I don't want to grind down the bone any more than necessary to clean it up. I like the lower shock mounts, so unless someone makes a longer spring perch, I will use a thinner castle nut. I was concerned about this because the OEM style one is so beefy. That area gets a lot of conflicting forces, but I'll try that route and drill for a cotter pin. C9, I think I understand what you are describing about shock mount, but pictures are always great, so post them if you have them. Thanks for your detailed response. Are you using Ford wishbones or batwings?
OH, and another question ... These Speedway "Mr. Roadster" shock mounts are keyed (as the catlaog states, to prevent them from rotating). The perches are not slotted, so what is supposed to located the keyed part of the shock mount?
spring in front type 35-48 wishbones are thicker, if you can use model a wishbone w/ speedway perch, and shock mount will fit-josh
[ QUOTE ] I'm guessing Speedway may have tossed a standard length perch bolt into your order. It looks and sounds about right for a perch bolt intended for spring mounting only and not a lower shock mount. [/ QUOTE ] haring, according to my new Speedway cat. the extra length spring perches should measure 2 1/2 inches from the top shoulder to where the thread begins. (left line to second line in your pic) The part #'s shown are; 910-3307 Black finish 910-33046 Chrome 910-33045 Stainless What number(s) are on your invoice?
I got 910-33047 (black), but oddly enough, they are chrome. Fine by me! The shock mounts were also supposed to be black but are chrome. The parts numbers are correct. Yes, the flat shank is 2.5". It's actually 2.75" to the top of the taper (1st line in pict). It seems apparent that these, even though longer, are made for batwings or the thinner a-style bones.
[ QUOTE ] These Speedway "Mr. Roadster" shock mounts are keyed (as the catlaog states, to prevent them from rotating). The perches are not slotted, so what is supposed to located the keyed part of the shock mount? [/ QUOTE ] The perch bolt has a keyway cut into it to stop rotation. As do the DF perch bolts and shock mount on my 32. The SuperBell perch bolt and lower shock mount on the 31 have no such keyway or key. I saw one set of un-keyed lower shock mounts that had swiveled, but I'm guessing they were improperly installed by a guy who had his cars built. Not a shot there, just that he was a newbie. I have asked other rod owners about their un-keyed perch bolt/lower shock mounts if they had any swiveling problems and the answer was no in all cases. Regardless, I plan to key the perch bolt/lower shock mount combo in my 31. Probably a keyway and pin or a simple roll pin. Cross that bridge when I get to it. The pic below is the 32 - running batwings. The DF lower shock mount as noted above is longer than the SuperBell lower shock mount. Shocks in both cases end up at about the same angle because the 32's upper mount is a DF folded steel mount which sets the upper part of the shock out a bit and the 31 uses a SoCal stainless shock mount and that sits the upper part of the shock in a little more. Long way round to say the front shocks on both cars are at about the same angle.
C9, I have perch bolts AND lower shock mounts WITHOUT any keyway(s). You mention that you have spoken to others with the "sans keyways" not having any problems. During a safety check last summer at least three "non keyway" equiped vehicles had shown some "twist off axis", (mine included) which I guess we can attribute to rougher roads up here. In an attempt to stop this from happening again, I went to my favorite machine shop to see if they could cut keyways in both the perch bolt and the lower shock mount. They indicated that cutting the keyway on the perch bolt would not be a problem, but to broach cut a keyway on the inside of the shock mount would mean a custom made broach guide. (he didn't have the right size in his set) His suggestion was a "spring / split pin." (both terms are used inchangeably up in this part of the world!!) After all the preamble; what size of "pin" would you suggest? (would save having to take the assembly apart) Second question of the day; what should the nut on the end of the perch pin be tourqed to? (have yet to find any instructions on this point)
funny, cause ive used the same set up before and never had a problem at all! same parts! how about the thickness in the end of the wishbones, your 32 heavy axle is a 2 inch perch thickness, are your bones 2-1/4? youll also have to make spacers to make up that 1/4 inch. i seen the spacers in speedway, ordered thim but they were chincy washers so i turned some up on the lathe, they look nicer.
[ QUOTE ] In an attempt to stop this from happening again, I went to my favorite machine shop to see if they could cut keyways in both the perch bolt and the lower shock mount. They indicated that cutting the keyway on the perch bolt would not be a problem, but to broach cut a keyway on the inside of the shock mount would mean a custom made broach guide. (he didn't have the right size in his set) His suggestion was a "spring / split pin." (both terms are used inchangeably up in this part of the world!!) After all the preamble; what size of "pin" would you suggest? (would save having to take the assembly apart) Second question of the day; what should the nut on the end of the perch pin be tourqed to? (have yet to find any instructions on this point) [/ QUOTE ] You don't need a broach guide if you have access to a lathe. Grind an HSS (High Speed Steel) cutting bit to the width of the keyway you want broached. Set the to be broached piece in the chuck so the bore is parallel to the ways. Lock the chuck in place with the lockpin or other method. Make sure you don't turn the power on while you're doing this. Install the HSS cutting bit into a boring bar so that the whole thing fits into the to be broached bore. Crank the carriage wheel until the boring bar w/bit enters the bore. Adjust the cross slide until the cutting bit contacts the bore. Use the carriage wheel to drag the cutting bit out. You'll have a very slight cut inside the bore. Retract the cutting bit with cross slide, run the cutting bit back into the bore. Adjust the cross slide .002 out so the next cut is deeper. Crank the carriage wheel so the cutting bit is drawn out again. (Left to right on the cut.) Repeat until desired depth is reached. It doesn't take too long and makes a very nice keyway. The keyway can be cut on the external using the same method. The internal cutting done on a lathe is very similar to what a broach does, just slower. Far as a split pin goes (and not a sheet metal roll pin) one about .187 OD should do it. My thinking was to drill the lower shock mount for the pin, orient it correctly and use that as a guide to drill the underside flat of the batwing/wishbone/radius rod. Install the split pin into the lower shock mount and drill the underside flat of the batwing et al fractionally larger so the split pin is a close fit, but not sloppy. I believe in the UK a split pin is what us stateside troops call a cotter pin. The split pin we use is a quality piece of flat steel rolled into a circle ending up similar to a single needle bearing etc. and has the capability to squeeze down and fit tightly into a hole so that it is self retaining. The roll pin I alluded to is not good for things operating under more than a touch of torque. It's just a long piece of spring steel sheet metal rolled up several times. It also has an expanding capability, but not much. Hope that's clear and I didn't muddy the waters too much Far as perch bolt torque goes, seems that a recommended scale of torque values as per bolt size would work - provided the perch bolt steel is as good quality as the bolts in question. With the perch bolts I don't think there's too much to worry about if you use a nylock. I crank em up with a medium size half inch ratchet wrench till they feel right. So far no problems in being too tight or things coming loose. Keep in mind as well if you have stainless perch bolts and stainless nylocks, use some Never-Seize or they could end up being stuck together due to galling of the threads.
[ QUOTE ] are your bones 2-1/4? youll also have to make spacers to make up that 1/4 inch. [/ QUOTE ] Titus is right on here. Batwings are usually 2 1/4". Note the batwing washers in the pic of my 32 above. 2" axle, 2 1/4" batwings. The batwings are Deuce Factory and the washers come from them as well. They are fairly precise and worked well for me. I've found the Deuce Factory to be very good about helping out with off-beat problems. I'm pretty sure they would sell you the washers alone.
Thanks Jay, have printed out for further reference. I have a lathe, but it's a bit light. Will see if I can "mouch" some time on a bigger one. Probably will go with the pin idea.
Oddly enough, the throat of my bones is 2 3/8". So far, all of my parts are off by a few fractions. Titus, I'll look forward to getting the axle so I can measure everything carefully and go from there.
What roothog said, a bones will go on later axles, ('37 at least) are not as heavy and the bolt would probably reach. How about milling 1/4" (+ or -) deep recess in the top and countersink the perch? The stock A wishbone bolts are scarce and expensive, was going to go the speedway perch route with a speedster project.
Rodrelic, thinking about this some more, I think I will probably take this advice. Andy mentioned it, and the more I thought about it, and looked at the wishbone, there is enough meat there to shave it down a bit and re-cut the countersink. I don't have anything that will cut that so I'll look for the help of of one of my buddies. I need to reshape the bone anyway, so I think it's a good idea.
[ QUOTE ] Oddly enough, the throat of my bones is 2 3/8". [/ QUOTE ] The 2 3/8" throat shouldn't be too much of a problem. A couple of 3/16" washers per side ought to do it. Maybe make em like Titus did and use stainless steel. If you're polishing up the front end, shiny washers would be a nice touch since they will be more visible. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ [ QUOTE ] stock A wishbone bolts are scarce and expensive [/ QUOTE ] I'm a touch surprised at the lack of A perch bolts. Especially considering how many re-pro Model A parts are manufactured. Have you tried the A resto houses?
The Jalopy Journal
