Anyone feel like schooling me on the alternatives to a vega box. It's for a hiboy model A with I-beam axle. I am familiar with the vega cross steer set-up but I would be interested in any alternatives you guys have used. Those darn vega boxes are getting up there in price. Thanks!!
Look for a Saginaw 122 or 525. They have the same bolt mount pattern as the Vega #140 box does. Both the 122 and 525 are close to the same size as the Vega. As the pics show, the input shaft is longer, but it's not a problem. There's another GM box out there and it's just a touch larger than the 122/525. Nice part about it is it mounts to a flat plate and bushings to get the main body of the box away from the frame are not needed. We put one of these in a Model A frame last weekend and I do have pics, but they're still in the digi-cam. Not sure what cars the 122 & 525 are found in, but I think it's the next size vehicle up from the Vega . . . El Camino's etc. Be real careful because there's also a reverse rotation Saginaw manual box out there. Perhaps it's for the front steer cars. Double check pitman shaft rotation direction. You want the pitman shaft to rotate CCW - viewed from above - when a right turn (CW) input on the input shaft is done. Since the pitman arm is set on the pitman shaft to point forward the pitman arm has to go left to turn right. Sounds confusing, but just think about it a little bit. (Other pics up in a bit.)
I just ordered the Vern Tardell book on steering...... may be of some help to ya....... dunno, I haven't got mine yet.... www.verntardell.com I think that was it.... C9.....that's some good info! Why does everyone go with the Vega...size?
I think size has a lot to do with it. The early Mustang box - complete with overly long column - was used as a side steer box for quite a while. I planned to use one of these in my 32 when I started building it in 1985. Even then, the Mustangs were getting to be a collectors item and one junkyard I hit wanted $85. for one. They were getting hard to find even though they were in a fairly common car about 20 years old that was made in large numbers. I got my first Vega box down the road at another junkyard and it was $25. I lucked out and got a good one. When you think about it, in 85 the Vega box wasn't too old. Like the early Mustang box, the Vega box was getting stupid-popular at the time. Out of 25 Vega's in the junkyard, only two had boxes. The 2nd Vega box I lucked into when a guy stripped out the aluminum cover plate on his. I offered to fix it, he said it couldn't be fixed and gave it to me. Took me an hour to fix it. Nice part is, it was in better condition than the first Vega box. Getting back to your original question, I think part of what happened with the Vega box was that they got known as "The Box" to run and no one bothered to look at other options. Geez . . . you can bolt power steering into a Vega mount if you wanted to. Probably overkill on a Deuce Highboy, but maybe a good deal on say, a 48 Ford coupe. I understand the Saginaw 605 power steering box is a bolt-in. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Here's one pic of the box I mentioned earlier. (It is a manual box.) Thought I had more, but what I wanted to show in this pic is how the boxes cast mounting tabs space the box away from the frame. It worked well in this install and I think it would work well in other cars as well. I don't have a number on it, but one thing I do know is it will not bolt to a Vega mount. All that is required is a drilled 3/16" plate welded to the boxing plate. Take note in the second pic of the swoopy "S" shaped pitman arm. Was no big deal to spin the pitman arm 180 degrees for hot rod use and this particular pitman arm may be useful with other GM steering boxes. Pitman splines from a particular manufacturer tend to be the same until vehicle size steps up to the heavier cars and pickups. This particular arm will get heated and bent up a touch for a better draglink angle.
Back in the '60's before Vegas, I used big Chevy boxes. Like a '60 Impala. Don't laugh. Look at one and you will see they are only slightly bigger than the Vega. About 5 times stronger. Cheap too.
This is some data that I collected when I was changing the steering to power on my Chevelle. Used it in reverse when I went shopping for a box for the A. Used a 70 LeMans (Canadian Pontiac version of a Chevelle), including the steering arm. Worked out quite a good match length wise for my dropped Ford steering arms. Haven't got there yet, but I think the intermediate steering shaft from a Astro van might work out good too, flex coupling and 2 universals and looks to be a good length, time will tell on that. Manual Steering Box Buick Special '64-70 Camaro '67-74 Chev P*** '65-70 Chevelle '64-70 Firebird '67-73 Grand Prix '69-70 Monte Carlo '70 Monza '75-79; 8 cyl Monza '78-80; 6 cyl Nova '68-70 Olds '64-70 Olds F-85 '64-70 Pontiac '64-70 Skyhawk 75-80 Starfire '75 Starfire '76-80; 6 cyl Starfire '77-79; 8 cyl Sunbird '76-80; 6 cyl Tempest '64-70 The following fit, but have different ratios or some other characteristics Several '70-83 AMC cars Several Jeeps '70-86 Apollo '73-75 Buick Special '71-72 Century '73-74 Chevelle '71-77 Cutl*** '73 Cutl*** '76 LeMans '73-77 Monte Carlo '71 Nova '71-79 Olds F-85 '71-72 Omega '73-79 Phoenix '77-79 Regal '73-74 Skylark '75-79 Sprint (GMC) '71-77 Tempest '71-72 Ventura II '71-77 From : http://www.442.com/oldsfaq/ofint.htm#INT Manual Steering Box Some comparison measurements: Dimension Vega Saginaw A Box length 5 7/8 7 1/8 B Box height 5 1/2 6 1/2 C width 4 5/8 5 3/8 Dia. Steering shaft 5/8 ¾ Hope this is some help. Canuck
If it is just the price of the vega box that bothers you, just keep an eye out in small junkyards. I bought 2 vega boxs just the other day for $25.00 (for the pair.)
I have a 37 ford box in my 31 A, its set up as a cross steer with 40 spindles, the box mounts about a foot foreward of the stock location & gives you a better steering wheel angle I think, steers much better than stock, a little worried about exhaust clearance when I go to the flathead, still have the banger @ this point.
Thanks, C9 and others. I like knowing I have options......I always saw that $300 Vega in catalogs and thought "there's got to be a better way..."
I used a '48 box (same thing) in my T V8. I had to incorporate a Borgesson U-joint but it works great. For the flathead, using a '41 exaust manifold, I had to cut and rotate the outlet port, then reweld it in the new position to clear the steering box. I think a set of center dump, block hugger headers would work also. pigpen
I used Corvair boxes back before I decided that cross steer on a hot rod wasn't cool. Disclaimer: That was a personal decision I made a long time ago and I'm not sure why. If I figure it out I'll do a thread and stir some **** up. Anyway do a search in the cl*** adz, there are a couple of guys parting out old 'vairs so you should be in cheap, if your lucky.
I used a RHD Series 2 Land Rover drag link box. It's quite short so lends itself to mounting on top of the frame rail. Punched the ball of the Landie trackrod end out, and did it up in a Model B drag link. Here's a pic from inside my luxurious T
I still use a corvair box on my A but it's drag link not cross steer. I have not had a problem yet the guy who reversed it said the gears in it were the same size as vega seems to work fine.
Never really thought about it but your right, I had a friend in high school that had a maroon covert monza, we pushed that car as much as we rode in it. But it beat riding to school on that Harley in the snow.
my roadster is equipped with a vern tardel-model a /f-1 box frankenstein. they cost well over $500.00 ,but is the cat's ***.steers one-handed standing still on a stack of marbles...my cheapness has always stopped me from getting stuff like this,but having it now,i think i would have budgeted past cars to include one.people are so cheap about everything but then there's 700.00 worth of coker rubber on the corners(people just like me!)
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