My uncle has a 60 Lark VIII Wagon that he will be bringing back to life here in coming months (I hope). Right now he is trying to figure out which engine to put in it. He is leaning towards a somewhat built crate 302. I am thinking he should go old school with a Flattie. What says the board? I am still trying to get pics. It is getting moved from storage (where is has been since the early 70's) to my mom's garage, so I should get some soon.
Nothing wrong with the Studebaker 259 that is likely in it. Plenty of power for the day and a few speed parts still available. A small block Chevy will fit in with factory brackets from a 65 or 66 Studebaker for the easy route
I would think that a flattie would be a step backwards for a 60 Stude. Although I have seen a salter or two that ran flatties in late model cars to make cl***. If he is going traditional I recently heard of a Lark forsale with an olds mill. I don't know how trad a hotrod lark is but I did hear of one lately. Nuthin' wrong with the 302, probably not my first choice but a crate engine wouldn't be high on my list either. if he likes Fords and doesn't want to go through the trouble of finding a core and building it the crate 302 is probably a good idea.
Going with the 259 that is in it was my other thought. Who knows, maybe with some Marvel it will still turn over! Never really thought of the flathead as a step back.. more for a random cool factor. But I get what you mean. He is a big Ford guy since he has never had any luck with Chevy's. I'm not a fan of the crate idea simply because they are fawkin expensive! I'm really looking forward to seeing where this car goes style-wise. He is asking for my input and we don't really see eye to eye on hot rod styling haha
If it still has the original V8, don't be too quick to **** can it. You can't judge a book by its cover. This 259 became .... this. They are not high winders but they have great low end torque. I paid 200 bucks for this one as seen in the first picture. It always grabs a lot of comments. HTML: Going with the 259 that is in it was my other thought. Who knows, maybe with some Marvel it will still turn over! It worked for me. This engine smoked some when it was first awakened from it's 20 year nap but came around after adding the Marvel Mystery oil and giving it some regular exercise to free up the gummed up rings. You may not be that lucky but it is worth a try.
Best you can do on styling is give your opinion and let the chips fall where they may. That's what the Ol' Man did with me and that's what I do with my kid. Perhaps if he finds an ardun headed flattie. But that's going to cost more than my house unless he just finds a ****er. Most of the Larks I've seen in my lifetime have been 6 cylinder cars. I don't recall what a Stude 6 puts out but it has got to be in the 160-180 hp range, a flattie if you get a good one makes about 100 hp out of the box. So that's my thinking on making a step backwards.
That alone is inspiration enough to make me want to rebuild the 259! I think keeping the original heart in it would be great! Any ideas on performance type upgrades for these engines? Gotcha. The flathead will have to remain a dream for another project! Thanks for the advice on that one.
Well ive got a 61 lark that i pulled the straig 6 out of and put in a 302 and there is plenty of room for anything and everything.
Do some searches on here and the Studebaker Drivers Club site for hop up ideas. I'm not a racer. Mine is a stock 58 with 2 97 carbs. I just want to go 75 MPH on the interstate and look neat. There are some guys that can make a 289 Stude walk the dog on the strip. They will probably chime in when they find this thread. The Stude engine has some things different from your average Ford or Chevy engine but nothing that you can't learn like I did.
Yeah, count me in on the "NIX the flathead" crowd. Going backward in too many ways. Larks can handle about any OHV V8....anything from a SB Chev or Ford to a Hemi Chrysler........but, if you want the car to handle, keep the engine to the lighter side. Keeping the original Studie V8 is a good choice, though it IS heavier than some others, but would have a GREAT cool factor. If you want to run an automatic, you might consider dumping the old borg warner automatic and buy an adapter for a GM A/T......anything from an aluminum case powerglide thru 2004R, 700R4 or Turbo 400 will work, but, personally, I favor the 2004Rs...... Ray
We went 130 at Bonneville this year with a normally aspirated Stude V8 that we de-stroked down to 182 cubic inches. And I have a 259 V8 in my '47 Stude pickup: Good lookin' motors. If you want to have some fun, put a late-model transmission behind it. I got an adapter for a 700R4 (or 2004R if you want) pretty cheap for the truck. If you want a manual, there are adapters that will let you put a Muncie on like we did with the race car. Bob
Stude engines were known to be a close copy of the early Caddy mills. Stick in the biggest early style Cad and dress it up. Voila' a hot rod, cruiser!
The studebaker engine was engineered before the Caddy V8 the resemblence is coincident based of some of the Stude engineers moving to Caddy. Lots of good stuff, forged crank, timing gears no chain, solid lifters, heads interchangable from side to side, later engines have a mannifold the with a bit of drillig and tapping and some cutting and grinding, will accomodate a 4bbl. the only negative is there are a bit heavy. leave it in and enjoy the unique sound also mine 64 full flow in my 56 PU.
Check the racing Studebakers on the Studebaker Drivers Club forum to see what a Stude moter can do. 12.03/114mph this year from, an R-3 Lark. A 304.5 Stude motor bored .045" for 312 c.i.
A McCulloch supercharged 289 would move the car nicely, look cool, and be about as nostalgic as you can get.
I have been a Studie fan since about 1960 or so and an owner, off and on, since 1964, currently a '56 Sky Hawk I have had for about 10 years and I have been a long time member of the Studebaker Drivers Club. I tell you that because I've got to take issue with the info above. There has been a lot of debate about the obvious similarity of the early Cadillac and Studebaker V8s. Since the Caddy (and Olds) OHV V8s were into'd in 1949 models, and Studebaker not until 1951 models, I GOT to believe the Caddy came first. Further, Ed Cole and Charles Kettering of GM Engineering have connsistently been credited with the Cad/Olds OHV V8s of the era. I do not begrudge Studebaker having somehow adopted the Cad design...it's not surprising given their limited budget and relatively low volume sales. But I prefer to accept that as the most likely scenario rather than concoct some BS story about it being a true "coincidence" or that Stude REALLy had it first. I understand marque 'pride', but that is just hard to square with all the other facts of the period. Doesn't diminish the Stude'sperformance potential or desirability...... Ray
I have read from 2 sources that the design of the studebaker V8 began in 41 and early 42. The project was shelved during WW II due to war production, and reintroduced in early 46. Unfortunately, I can't site the sources but it seem like credible information.
No disrespect intended.....but what about that rumor seems credible? For all the wonderful cars they built in the late 20's/early 30's, Studebaker was not cutting edge in engineering post Depression/World War II. With the exception of their in house engine production of the flathead sixes, the running gear was all bought from suppliers like Borg Warner and ****er etc. With the styling it was a different matter......but even that was outsourced to Raymond Loewy's industrial design firm. As I said, I am a Studebaker fan in general, but innovative engineering wasn't evident in the period in question. Maybe it's true.........but without strong evidence, I remain a skeptic. Ray
Pontiac power!!! my 53 studebaker has a 461 Poncho mill. It will really haul the mail, even with a 3.00 gear!
Interesting, I didnt know about the Stude's design, but mainly was focusing on the Caddy,s larger cubes. Back in the day that was a popular engine swap. I remember my buddy had a Stude powered 40 Ford 2dr. Driving it back from the Colton drags I got beaten by a flathead, and also got my first ticket.
well after reading responses, I think that I will push for the Stude engine to live again! If he doesn't want to do so, I will just keep the engine and rebuild it for a future project of my own I had a line on a pair of Stude Wagons a few years back but lack of funding and ample storage has delayed that venture. Not sure if they are still available or not. Hoping it can come back with this project taking place. Viva La Studes!
Stude built a good engine. A little on the heavy side for my taste but if I had a Stude V-8 I'd be all over using it. If I could lay my hands on a Supercharged Stude mill in good shape I would probably out it in my current project. But alas finding one even in poor shape affordable is about as likely as the running onto a grand prix raced Bugatti for a price that the average millionaire can afford. I think you are more correct about the Stude being a copy if the Caddy than the Caddy being a copy of the Stude. I had heard that the author of both engines worked for both companies at one time or another probably not at the same time and thuse the similiar engines. I do know that in the early commanders the cad mill was nearly a bolt in of not an exact bolt in thus the popularity of the Studillac.
Agreed, Pork'n'******........I know that the caddies were a favorite, and "natural" in the 50's....Bill Frick, in NY or NJ, built a lot of them IIRCC. Ray
Stude or Caddy good question, had a 289 V8 in my Skyhawk, a 259 V8 in my Powerhawk my only regret was i didn't buy the 331 Caddy manifold with Dual Quads at the Studebaker Nationals in Red Wing Mn $125.00 next day it was gone, with a mod it bolts on the Stude V8
Kind of ironic, considering that more than a few flatties were pulled out of rods in the fifties to be replaced by OHV stude V-8's!
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