Ok.. Im sure Ill catch some kind of hell... but its my first question around here and Ill make it a good one. I just scored a 70 camero clip from a fellow. Id like to slap it under my 50 Chevy Business coupe. Nobody around here (HERE.. here, not HAMB... here) seems to know how.. or is really interested in explaining how. So.. please help? Any direction would be appreciated. Adult supervision... Sage words of wisdom... advice... a few good dont's before I do (because Im sure I will if left to my own devices...) I have an idea of how to do this.. but I could be waaay left field. Thanks!
Pros include: Disc brakes / dual master = better handling Front end parts are easy to find and cheap(er) at any auto store in the country Easier to drop it or air bag it later Your ride will be part camaro, so you can keep your mullet. Cons: Camaro front clips are wider than stock if I remember corrrectly, so measure and narrow it or you'll have a funny looking, poor handling front end. You will spend a lot of time modifying it and installying (I hope). You lose Old Skewl Kredibility
Do you have a welder? Also, depending on how you do it, you may have to fabricate all new mounts for the fenders, grille, and radiator, and maybe have to recess the firewall. Measure measure measure. Or buy an aftermarket M2 kit. I did, and it works great. Ch***is engineering has a kit that uses some of the same bolt holes that the original bolt on front end uses.
worse thing i have to say about the maro subframes, is that you rarely see em center in the wheel well, sell the maro sub and buy a mustang2.....it will install in a couple of hors and be done. you will probably responde with, "but they are so pricey" just remember,...time is money, and your electric bill will probably be 200-300 bucks for all your welding time. think it over....good luck! keep us updated!
I'm just finishing up putting a 76 Camaro sub in a 52 Chevy. There are a few drawbacks to it. It's a lot of work(time) and it is too wide to use stock backspace wheels. You could narrow a sub but its hard to get everthing back together straight and then you would have to cut down the tie rod ends. Another option is to buy narrow control arms but then you'd spend about as much as the Mustang IFS cost. I will end up running wheels with more backspace and will most likely move the lower ball joint in about 3/4 of an inch. I would probably use the M2 if I were doing it again. Here's a few pics. The ones with the front end were taken before the clip was all the way down in front but they show how tight it is. Hope this helps. Bob
before you start into the project.. sell that 50 chevy to someone who WONT subframe it... If you want all that non traditional modern stuff.. go buy a used 80's street rod thats already beed subframed.. dont screw up a perfectly good car
Having a 52 with a M2, I'll vote for the M2 as well. If you don't want to do the M2, I'd say keep the stock front end... maybe get some Fatman dropped uprights/spindles and a disc brake kit (or just upgrade the stock brakes to ones from 52-54 Chevys). The stock front ends really aren't that bad, considering. Personally, I don't think the Camaro will improve your ride/handling enough to justify the work and the hidden costs involved. Parts availability might be a different issue, though. If you decide to go with an M2, be sure to get the triangulated lower control arms, and make sure they are 1) gusseted like crazy and 2) preferably tied into the frame rail, not just the crossmember.
I was involved in subframing a 51 Chebby, but we used a '78 Cutl*** front frame section. Best thing we ever did. That car handled great, rode great, and the track width was the same as stock. Centreing the wheels is just proper measuring, those who can't centre the wheels really shouldn't be issued acetylene, it's that basic. As for M-II, you want I should send you the pics of my ex's car, after the M-II kit blew up?? For my money, a properly done subframe strentghens the frame, enhances the ride, and works better all 'round. The key is doing it properly. Measure 14 times, look it all over 27 times, stand back and eyeball it 55 times, THEN tack weld. Then check it all over again, 101 times. You REALLY don't want to have to cut that out. Cosmo
I have a 76 Holden (Aussie GM) subframe under my 52. Very similar I think to what you have. Love the power steering, discs etc. Was a fair amount of work rehanging the sheetmetal. I had the ch***is work professionally done and finished it myself. The new clip is wider than original and if I was to do it again I would use an earlier front end that bolts in like original. You may have to make a few mounts but that's much less work (and better width). BTW I overcame the look of the wider track by grafting some flared wheel opening lips of another local 50's GM product. Came out fairly good. Someone famous once said, "Less is easier". I think that's how it went. Pete
1968-1972 GM sub-frames are narrower than later stuff...they go under an early Chevy MUCH better than the later stuff... Nothing wrong with a sub-frame...just depends on how much work you want to do to make it look like it "grew" there... Remember, even Mustangs require some work to get them in straight and true and make the steering work properly!!! R-
Okay. Since I never paid attention to these year Chevys outside cutting up a '51 coupe for the body when I was 16 (damn that was too long ago), what about the '52-'54 brakes is better before I spend money on stock '49 brakes when my buddy has just about literally a pile of 53-54's? Might be a hijack but I'm sure the answer will help some other people reading this too. BTW on the one I found, am thinking black primer, some small fin tips with new taillights, low in the back, bright color scallops on the side and lower dash to match, maybe '56 Olds headlight rings, and the stock 6 with 3 on the tree (unless I run into a two-carb intake somewhere). Interior by whatever looks decent in the u-pull-it, too. Undecided on the grille... Maybe switch to 12 volts so I can put a modern stereo in it. Other than that, have fun.
I've done lots of sub-frames over the years, and I do not advise it if you haven't ever done one before. It's a lot of work, and not really worth it. Typically the steering box will be right where the radiator sits, the track width will be too wide unless you get an older one that has rear steer, in which case you probably won't get disc brakes. Getting the sub in the car is the easy part. You will spend more time re-hanging sheetmetal and fabbing radiator mounts, and bumper brackets. I don't care how good of a fabricator you are, the front half is almost impossible to make neat. They are just plain clumsy. If you have to do this swap, there is one very important thing you have to do that most people don't. Before you do any cutting of the rear half of the frame rails, set them level, and weld a piece of 1'' square tubing or angle iron to the main crossmember also level. If you don't, once you cutoff the tail ends, you will have nothing to go by. They are the only thing on there that is level to the ground. Also, the car has to be level when you put it in. If you don't do this one step, you will have no idea how to get it in correctly. Today I wouldn't think twice about it, I would definately go with a Mustang II using a good quality crossmember. Stick with Heidts, or TCI for a weld in, or RBs for a bolt in, Ch***is Engineering also makes a bolt in, but it won't accomodate power steering. The crossmembers run about $400-$550, and well worth it. The bolt in can be done in a day, the weld in about two days depending on how fussy you are. The sub frame start to finish including bumper and radiator mounts, for somebody who has done them before is 30 - 40 hours. You make the choice.
QUOTE: "Okay. Since I never.... .... what about the '52-'54 brakes is better before I spend money on stock '49 brakes when my buddy has just about literally a pile of 53-54's?" Might be a hijack but I'm sure the answer will help some other people reading this too. UNQUOTE. Yeah, me too, what's this about the lousy brakes on my '50 using "better" 53/54 brakes?.. Watchoomean?.
Oh yeah. Time heals all pain. I had forgotten about the location of the steering box. Had to move thr radiator forward and when I did that the hood wouldn't close so I also had to drop it a couple of inches. I remember now , and that was just the beginning. I did enjoy doing it and it did come out pretty tidy... but it really was a lot of (unnecessary) work. Find something to bolt or weld to your original rails. Pete
Got a PM on this (Thanks!!) - through '50 use Huck brakes, '51-'54 use Bendix brakes. It's a ittle bit newer technology, I don't have all the details yet but I am going to dig out my '51 Motors manual and see if I can gather some more information there.
Hey Thanks fellas! this is good stuff. I remembered the steering box as soon as it was mentioned, and yes... its right in the %$)% way of the radiator. I guess the thing to do is what Magnet said, and dont do it. Just resign myself to greasing the wheel bearings every couple of weeks. Ive been wandering around with a tape measure like its a magic wand. So far its all pretty intimidating.... do-able but intimidating. Thanks for sharing all the exp.... keep it coming!
My wife and I both drive our 54, stock front brakes, adjusted proporly with the right master cylinder, stops like a dream. Panic stops work great.
heres some pics of the 87 G-body ( cutl***, regal, monte) sub frame were doing on my boys 54 chevy 2 door post car. fit very nicelyi'll get more pics when we get some more work done. it wil be baged with 2 in drop spindles in the front and a 3" notch in the back. should lay rockers or VERY close.
older camaro rear steer frames are just as much of a night mare. steering colum hockup becomes a problem cause of the angles you may need an off set steering box $300 header and clutch clearence problems, front sheetmetal mounting. early camaro subs are narrower but all the disk brake kits move the wheels out 3/4" on each side(there goes the narrower part)
Seek out aftermarket stuff for the look you're going for, and work around your stock frame. The money you think you'll save with a junkyard subframe will come back to haunt you...
Looks like the graft you have done has been done well, but I have some questions. It looks as though you have painted or primed it, but I still see the front frame horns from the donor car. This goes back to my comments earlier, have you fit the radiator and steering box together?, and why this far into paint have you not done that as well as the bumper mounts? The other issue to me is how there is no kickup in the firewall area. Any of the subs I have done have always had a substantial amount of kickup to get the car to sit reasonably low. Even with air bags, it looks to me like the car is going to sit really high. Just my observation, maybe the pictures are deceiving.
I was wondering the same thing. I plan on using a 82 grand prix (g-body) as a subframe on my 51 chevy but I plan on "Zing" it at least 1 inch up. Also did you keep any type of spacing for the radiator to firewall dimension? Bottom line for me 82 Grand Prix complete with disc brakes, small block mounts, power steering, and power brakes $150.00
Heh heh! The stock front ends are pretty good, as is. In fact, GM used them on Corvettes into the 60s if I'm not mistaken. My front end on my '50 needed a total rebuild though, and for the price of all the parts (and there are a LOT of them in that front end) I was close to an M2. You can't really bag the stock front ends, and that was on my wish list, so I went M2. I got the ch***is Engineering bolt in, and it's great. I do wish that it came with a power steering option though. RBs didn't have a bolt on at the time, and I didn't have a welder at the time. And remember, hard core hot rod guys have been swapping front end parts for years... ever seen an OLd SKeWL HawtRawd 28-31 Model A with a 40s front axle? How is that different than a 60's front end in a 50s car? Sorry for the drama.... build what you wanna build. As long as it's not a car for Burning Man...
i clipped my 53' buick with a 75' firebird trans am. it wasnt easy but it turned out great. it sits great now and will most likely ground out when i put my bags on it (which is what i wanted). the clip was 75 or 100$ after replacing all the brake parts, new rotors and calibers i think it was a little over 150. so i see the benefit way out weighing the negetive imho. we left the hood on the car and pre measured from it to the center of the original wheel to center the new frame. worked great with the buick's X frame. my advice if your gonna do it is measure everything before cutting and have a good game plan. i copied mine off another 53' buick i saw at leadseast so i suggest finding one that was done already that you like, and copy it to be safe on your first one.
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