Superbell Axles Bending?? Safety Concerns.

I recently came across something I have not heard of or experienced.
Has anyone ever experienced this??

I had the 34 pickup aligned months ago after I got it on the road.
It was tracking perfectly with no shimmy or pull and drove it this way for a few weeks.
On a trip to Columbus, a 200 mile trip, I was slowing down on a straight away to around 45 mph. I decided to pull off the road to wait for one in the group to catch up and so I hit the brakes. When I hit the brakes the front left brake locked up and pulled hard to the left.
During this lockup I heard a sound I couldn’t distinguish.
It sounded like… a screeching metal sound.. but low pitched not high.
Right after this, the truck started pulling hard to the left. I stopped to take a look if a brake locked up and look at all the components and everything was ok. Still pulling.
About a week later I had it realigned thinking the brake lockup just threw it out of alignment.
The alignment guy told me he couldn’t align it because the caster was out 5 degrees from one spindle to the other and the hairpins didn’t have enough adjustment.
I thought that was strange since there was no problem the first time around and got to study the setup.
Here I find the left spindle on this lowered Superbell axle was twisted forward causing this 5 degree variance. If it was the brake lockup that caused this, the twist direction would have been correct so naturally I am thinking the brakes caused it. Apparently this screeching noise was the metal beam bending.
Going this speed I would have never expected an I beam axle to bend????
I recently replaced the axle and found no other areas on it that indicated it was ever in an accident. This axle was on the truck when I bought it and looked to be new.
The only way I see it could have bent would have been that the hardness was “dead soft”
Like the heat treat was missed during its production. I need to check its hardness.
The main reason I’m bringing this up is because I’m worried other axles may be out there on other cars with this condition.
Anyone ever have anything like this happen ??

 

You need to call jerry @ pete&jakes, 1 800 334 7240
he would like to talk to you, saftey is a big concern with them.

 

Ok,
But I would like to have more history on the axle before I contact anyone.
I lost my contact number on the fellow from texas who owned the vehicle before me. And I want to measure its hardness also before I call.
I can almost bet its a heat treat issue.
Does any metallurgist here know what the hardness reading should be??

 

Never heard of a problem with a "Super Bell Axle" top quality stuff. But I guess anything can happen. Could it have been heated for alignment[sp] before you got it??........OLDBEET

 

is the hairpin straight.....? i mean you can twist a steel beam axle pretty far....sorta the way they are made.....brandon

 

When you are able to test it, check numerous places along the axle. If someone did improperly use heat to tweak the axle before, a soft zone could be pretty small. If the axle is soft throughout, you might have a claim with Super Bell. You may be beyond any warranty concerns, but I doubt they want a customer service issue discussed in a 16000 member forum...

 

I've used hundreds of Super Bell axles and have had 1 chrome axle that lost it's camber big time. I mean that the wheels were leaning in quite a bit. Pete & Jakes replaced it no problem.

 

I would think if ANY axle lost it's camber it would have been due to the same problem.
The hairpins are as straight as an arrow. The bend occurred ONLY at the gooseneck portion that goes up to the spindle.
Thanks for the tips on checking the hardness.
Anyone else??

 

You need to explain this a liitle more. I've bent a lot of steel and have yet had it emit a screeching sound and not show some kind of metal separation. The next question is why did the brake lock up?

If this was a beam axle from any company they are either cast or forged and neither of these bend easily. At a slow speed it is doubtfull that you could generate enough brake force to twist the axle even on heavy braking, the tire would slide first.

If this was a tube axle, these have cast ends that are plug and seam welded. The only way that this would rotate is if the welds cracked and that would be obvious with a visual inspection. If this is a bent soild tube axle it wasn't a Super Bell.

Now if was a dropped original axle, this might be possible as I have had prior experience with the caster changing on old stock axles, they are a little weak especially if you have a left hand slingshot steering arm. Heating and stretch dropping doesnt make it any stiffer.

Keep a post as to what has transpired.

 

How about a picture? Did you ever find out what was going on with the brake on that side?

 

Sorry **** I will provide more info..

I too have a lot of question that entered my mind. That was one reason why I posted it.

The bent axle is a “ 4 inch dropped Superbell” I beam axle. I really don’t know if they are cast or forged.

“At a slow speed it is doubtfull that you could generate enough brake force to twist the axle even on heavy braking, the tire would slide first.”

I couldn’t believe either that the brakes alone could cause this area to twist. But if its dead soft it may.

“The next question is why did the brake lock up? “

After arriving back home I dis***emble that brake and found the wheel cylinder had large pitting in the bore and the piston became hung up in there.

When the brake locked up the tires did skid but only slightly. But it pulled more than anything.
There’s not a lot of weight at the front of these trucks.

” I've bent a lot of steel and have yet had it emit a screeching sound and not show some kind of metal separation.”

Yes, I agree. There has to be some visible stretching somewhere in this area. After al, that’s what happens during a twist. I just haven’t examined it that closely yet.

“Now if was a dropped original axle, this might be possible as I have had prior experience with the caster changing on old stock axles, they are a little weak especially if you have a left hand slingshot steering arm. Heating and stretch dropping doesnt make it any stiffer.

Keep a post as to what has transpired.”

Yes, If Heating was done to this axle to bend it prior to my ownership, it sure would make it softer in that area.
I will keep everyone updated.

 

I had this exact same problem with a Magnum 4" drop axle that I purchased new.

When I was in the R&C Ego-Rama, I did several back to back, 4 wheel lock panic stops. It made some *****in pictures but it cost me a pocket full of cash. Besides the obvious flat spotted tires, my axle bent on both sides right in the gooseneck area just as you described (except for the screeching , I didn't hear anything). 10 degrees on one side and 11 degrees on the other.

I've got another 4" Magnum on it now but the next time I buy an aftermarket axle, I'm going to fork out the extra bucks to get a forged piece.

 

I too have a lot of question that entered my mind. That was one reason why I posted it.

The bent axle is a “ 4 inch dropped Superbell” I beam axle. I really don’t know if they are cast or forged.

My understanding is that CE is the only company the has a forged axle. So I would say that it is cast, if that axle is soft from being heated they would have had to put quite abit of heat into it to lose its hardening(is this true or will just a little heat cause the axle to go soft) ? With engine, road noise and whatever else for you to hear a screeching sound it had to have been alot louder that you realize if in fact that was the noise.. Good luck in your findings.

 

Just for our info, cast axles are not hardened. If you want to check just run the corner of a mill ******* file across it. One stroke will leave a groove in the axle. Try that on something hard like a dowel pin. The axle may have been weakend by improper heating. I bet the manufacter would like to have a look at it for there own piece of mind.

 

Are beam axles hardened at all? That'd require some kind of heat-treating that cast axles couldn't undergo and that forged axles don't need. When a genny axle is dropped it has the bejesus heated out of it and as far as I know isn't re heat-treated afterwards. Dropped genny axles are weaker in the heated area but only because the metal cross-section is thinned not that any heat-treatment is lost. Beam axles need to be somewhat flexible and heat-treating would reduce that tendency. If for whatever reason ya don't want the axle to flex much then a tube design is the way to go.

The incident under discussion here is mysterious right enough but even a top quality piece like a Magnum couldn't be completely immune from rare defects. If someone knows for sure that typical beams are heat-treated then I'll be glad to munch on a crow sandwich.

 

I bought a 4" dropped Magnum "Bell style" axle. I bought this one over the Superbell axle because the ends were cast from 1018 steel, and not made from cast ductile iron like the Super Bell axles are.. My reasoning is that if it's a welded axle, I'd like the two materials to be at least symiliar metalurgically speaking. 30 years in the tool and die industry have taught me that when you weld together dissimiliar materials (And I'm not saying that it's not safe, or isn't done occaisionally) strange things happen.

But there's a difference in somethting that you're riding in, and a die or a mold that might fail in production.

I never had this axle change one bit as to camber and caster.. But I'll admit that I never abused it, nor have I had one of the 1947 Ford brakes that I ran on it lock up either.

My 13 year old son Dan is using it under his 1930 Ford coupe. The worst thing that's happened to it is some rust from our Michigan winters.

I've had in the past under this same Model A a Mor-Drop axle that wouldn't keep camber. That's because they are not heat treated after they are dropped. Mor-Drop's instructions are that youa ssemble the car and then ahve a front end shop sheck alignment as to caster/camber.

These axles are relatively inexpensive at $200 or so....Replacing it was a wise thing. For safety, just cut it in pieces so no one can reuse it on their project.

 

Ford axles are heat treated. When they are heated for dropping, the hardness is lost. It's dead soft and annealled. And it's not heat treated afterwards. I remember reading someplace years ago an article on dropped axles that you should heat treat the axle as if it were "a 4140 type" tool steel".

What the article failed to mention is the Rockwell "C" scale hardness to check following during heat treat.

Any other good advice?...I think it's a "by guess and by golly" set of cir***stances if you run an old dropped axle.

If the person dropping the axle overheats it, the steel gets damaged, or "burned".

If it's not hot enough, the steel can fracture, internally where you can't see it, or externally where it's obvious.

I've bought two of the Ch***is Engineering dropped axles and have used them with no problems. Narrower than a Model A axle, they do fit better under the fenders of cars.

 

I'm no expert, but I love problem solving. Do you think it could have had anything to do with the fact you were turning the wheels as you were braking (when they locked up)?

 

Ford axles were marked with a forged record of steel type in the web area at one end--mine ('32-4 examples) all seem to say "EE-1", and the notation is readable as stretched letters in the good non-distorted drops. There were apparently also some made of an AA-something steel.

I read this information first in a post by Marco on Fordbarn--he's a SERIOUS researcher, and may well have info on what those grades are. I believe these are purely Ford-spec designations that don't relate to any standards outside the company, and I don't know whether the designation includes anything about heat treatment or whether it was strictly a reference to alloy before anything else happened. Ford in the early thirties still pretty much made and controlled anything important entirely in-house right from the point it was dug out of the ground. Supposedly Ford axles were the raw material for early Plomb wrenches!
Just a note to indicate a simple deuce axle has a lot of secrets and a lot of room for basic research in the Ford archives...

 

Check your PMs i sent you his name and phone number

 

Hi petejoe, Wow you started a link.. Anyway to answer some questions both SB and Magnum axles are both cast axles, probably made from some alloy of ductile iron that is pressure cast in a permenet mold. The hardness of the metal determined by the mixture. This process is the same as crankshafts, spindles and other parts are made. Althought the name says cast it is not like your highschool sand cast aluminum ash tray. This produces an easily machineable part with excellent strength characteristics. Ductile iron can be subject to heat treatment but to achieve a dead soft rating, highly unlikely as the material would deteriorate. Ductile iron can also be forged by forming blanks hot in a high pressure mandrel die. In each case the material retains similar outward a properties but grain structure is some what different.

Whether formed by either process the material can be subject to bowing or bending but require a significant amount of pressure. I suspect that if there is a caster difference between sides that you have a wrap in the axle. The fact that you have hair pins, they bowed allowing the axle to twist and then took back their normal set. The question now is how?

Before any further action you should remove the axle from the car and diss***mble the components, give them a good visual inspection. Then place the axle on a flat surface to check to see if it is wrapped, bent or bowed. If the axle is straight it will mean to look for another problem. If the axle does not lay flat, determine where the deflection takes place an then a call to the manufacturer would be necessary.

I think the noise you heard was the momentary chrip of the tire locking up and then releasing, no more junk yard calipers!

What Bruce is talking about is a stock Ford axle, these where made from made from carbon steel alloy and forge formed. They are springier and flex more but are very strong. The letters probably refer to the steel letter code to determine if it was steel made A was open hearth furnace, E was electic furnace, the 1 indicated carbon steel basemetal.

Everyone else would like to hear the outcome so let us know.

 

I'd like to see a picture of one of the early Ford I-beam axles that Ford twisted from end to end to show it wouldn't break.

I heard one of these was on display at Hershey not long ago.

Dave
http://www.roadsters.com/

 

It is my understanding this one from Speedway is one of them.

 

Amazing. Thanks. I had never seen one.

Imagine what would happen if you tried that with a cast axle.

Dave
http://www.roadsters.com/

 

Thanks for all the information ****, I was hoping this would get some attention as saftey related as it is.
You kinda lost me on the axle construction but I believe i understand enough of it to realize these should not be dead soft.
Yes, how did this happen is the big question,,,,
I dis***embled the axle and looked closely at all the components, welds and joints and found no bends or brakes anywhere in this ***y.
Here's a picture of this axle. As you can see its laying flat everywhere except at the left spindle goose neck area.
The noise most definitely was not any tire chirp. I have very good hearing and am very good at distinguishing component sounds during driving.
It was kinda like a low pitched growling screech far from anything a tire could make on a blacktop road.
Here's the pics.. of the axle and the close ups are of the bent spindle area.
Here's pics of the replacement axle along with a side shot of all the components that took the abuse.

 

That's bizarre.

When you're talking to Superbell, ask them if their aluminum axles are still on the market, and if not, why not.

For that matter, someone might ask Deuce Factory whatever happened to their cast stainless I-beam axles.

Dave
http://www.roadsters.com/

 

wow , that is bent..i kinda thought it was BS until i saw the pictures

you need to talk to pete & jakes

 

Not until I get all the info,
Stick around... you'll find that i don't BS.

 

Wow that is pretty dramatic. It looks as though the axle was not modified in any way. I'd like to know the answer to this one. The only good thing I see is the axle bent but didn't break. If it would have snapped off you could have been in deeper ****.

 

Holy ****!! At least ya replaced it with a drilled axle. Good luck and keep us updated. This one has my attention.