I kind split on what kind of trans to source. I'm building a 1931 ford coupe with a flathead v8. I'm trying to build a fairly period car, the one concession I am thinking about is a overdrive trans. The main thing that comes to my mind when building this car is a time machine. I want my car to be as close to authentic as I can make it, obviously a t-5 isn't. I want it to drive like a old car. I want the experience of it..... On the other hand I do plan on driving this thing frequently. I don't think a t-5 would really be frowned upon, but I'm just wondering if NOT HAVING a 3 speed will ruin the experience for me. Will the t-5 change the driving experience a lot? I want it to drive like a old car. Am I over thinking this?
Driving the Rocky33 convinced me the virtue of a 5 speed in flathead powered cars. I sold all my 39 ******s last fall to some other IRON COLLECTOR
I can't say good or bad about a T-5 cause I have never used one, but if i did i hope someone would kick me in the nuts then in the face... No disrespect to the guys using them, but i feel they don't go together with an AV8 or any flathead for that matter. Would you put one in this?
put the t 5 in it. you are overthinking it. it will make your car much more enjoyable. the juice is way worth the squeeze if you plan on driving this all the time. it you want the old timey feel, just fab the old 3 speed shifter to the t 5 one. i wont tell anyone.
If your going with a new t-5 step up to the t-45 or 3650 both are tremecs.DandD performance also sell`s rebuilt t-45 and 3650`s for 999 when you can catch them on sale check`m out DandDperformance.com they do nothing but tremecs....you could always run a gear in the rear that would be a litle beter for highway use if you stick w/ the 3spd.What are the rear in those things anyway?
I'd run the T5 myself and if you really want that "old timey" feeling you can downshift into 4th and hang out in the slow lane! Seriously though, I really would go with the T5, our club goes on a lot of long distance roadtrips and the lack of overdrive gets old pretty quick. Overdrive makes a car so much more enjoyable on a roadtrip, you get better mileage, and it's easier on the motor, I just don't see a downside! As for it not being traditional, my buddy's 58 Edsel has a factory overdrive so they were around. PLUS the fact that the transmission is under the floor where noone can see it! You're not going to ruin the look of your ride with something noone is going to see.
Any rodder who kept his car would replace the transmission with an OD unit in a heartbeat as soon as they started apprearing in the junkyards. It's all about the driving and the easier and more fun the better. Another thought, if you just have to have a 3-speed move up to the full synchro-low 3-speeds of the early 60s and later. Used in almost every Ford car and pickup these are good solid units and much more reliable than the old pre-48 boxes.
I don't think that adding a gear or two is going to ruin the experience. You still will have a 1:1 gear in there, and will be able to go on the freeway. 1-4, of 5 span about the same range as the 1-3. There is just one more shift, plus you get an overdrive, too. My AV8 has 6 speeds, it does not ruin my experience, even a little.
My reference for driving a t-5 rear wheel drive vehicle is a 1987 4cyl s-10. It feels very truckish and has kinda a long throw, and feels slow at shifting. It's nothing like the muncie in my gto.
After selling countless T-5 conversion kits over the years I have yet to have a customer that has missed the 3 speed trans. Everyone has said the T-5/OD trans has increased the overall driveability and enjoyment of their early Ford.
I built two traditional cars during the last 10 years that started out with Ford 3-speeds. I converted one of them to a T5 after about 7 years. The difference (for the better) was so tremendous that I would never consider building another 3-speed car. The only old-time experience you'd miss would be ****py synchros and fragile gears. What you'd gain would be easier shifting (including synchro 1st), a nice selection of ratios for any road conditions, and a long, relaxed highway gear.
Then don't use an S-10 T5. Get one from a Mustang. If you don't like the S-10 ******, you will loathe the 3speed. It's not like the Muncie in your GTO either.
The "best" first gear ratio T-5 are Camaro V-8 and some Mustangs with a 2.95 first gear.What's the first gear ratio on the old Ford box? But some Camaro V-8 t-5's have an OD of around .62 which means perhaps too low rpm for crusing with old engines.Gotta check that out S-10 T-5's have first gear ratios of 3.50-4.03. I' ve driven old Chevy stuff with 6's and the S-10 box first gear was way too low for my tastes even with a 3.50 rear end gear.Maybe a Flattie V-8 has no low speed guts and needs a low gear?
That statement right there sounds like rowing thru all 3 gears in an old 3 speed. BTW, the shifter itself is responsible for the long throws and slugish shifting. Replacing it with an aftermarket short throw setup,,, or even a stock shifter from a camaro would solve that problem....... Or keep the s-10 shifter in it for that authentic old fashioned shifting feel.
Your concerned about the t5 being frowned upon? Who cares what others think. I was convinced that being period correct was the only way to go.....but then I got to drive the Rolling Bones roadster half way to Bonneville in 05. Changed my life forever. Only restorers and scaredy cats worry about it.
I don't know about the early three speeds, but I've had plenty of 3 on the tree Falcons... those poor sixes were begging for another gear. If it were mine I'd use the T5 with an early shift lever adapted to a short shifter (or like others said the Mustang or Camero shifter) in a heart beat. Think of it as being kind to your flat head, it will love the lower RPM's.
Then you'd better stay on dirt roads and keep it under 50MPH. I think "the experience" is over rated. Bob
I can tell you i have a 3sp with a od in my 31.5 years running and 15k on the motor and trans.The motor is a real healthy 276 and the rear is a early halibrand magnesium quick change.285 /70/15 rear tires 31 inches tall with a detroit locker i fabbed into the rear with late model axles. Here is where my problem lies,I do drive my car like its stolen.You can ask hotroded about the 100 plus mph flog down sunrise hwy at 1 am,or the 2400 mile round trip stint to fla for a one day car show. I definitly push the poor thing,and it tells me often.3 explosions of first gear and the cluster to date.With a 3.00 first trying to spin bolth tires rips the teeth off first. If you can contain yourself from holeshots it will be just fine. somewhere around a 30 percent od puts me at 2000 rpm at 80. I made up myown floor shifter with a second floor shift for od.I used a latching relay to enguage od on the fly so i really have two sets of three speeds,underdriven 3 and overdriven 3. Another option you do not get with a t5. If you choose to go this route feel free to pm me for anything.
I think you are on the right track with this. From what we've heard here a 5 speed will make a nicer driving experience but I'm going to go with a 3 speed for the exact same reason as you are suggesting; to get a glimpse of what it felt like. H***le or not I'm really looking forward to "piloting" my flathead powered 3 speed coupe. When I get sick of the nostalgia of it I might upgrade but I think it would be a shame not to at least see what it felt like - especially if you are fascinated (like me) to see what it felt like to grind 'em and smile. I once drove a 34 coupe (gl***y) over 2,000 miles with 4.11:1 rear gears. I sat on 3,500 rpm, used $20 an hour in fuel and can barely remember a time when I had a bigger smile on my face. Yes, sometimes the experience is more important than being comfortable.
Well, it looks like I'm going to play devil's advocate here and reccomend the three speed. Granted, my early 50's period AV8 has only been on the road for about 100 miles and I already had to swap the trans... my fault for not completely going thru the trans before installing it and making sure I had the correct clutch components installed... but I, for one, LOVE the old 3 speed. Yes it's sorta truckish, yes it's kinda clunky feeling, and no it doesn't shift like a modern car. But... it's NOT a modern car. It's a period correct hot rod roadster. I want it to be as close as possible to a real old hot rod. And that means shifting like one. I want it to look, sound, smell, feel like the real deal. If that makes me a "restorer" than so be it. Call it whatever you want. For a traditional hot rodding forum there sure seems to be a lot of animosity toward doing things the "old way" around here lately. I have nothing against t-5's, I'm sure they're a pleasure to shift. I may very well use one someday, but not in this car! I should mention that I do have a quickchange with tall gears in it so I still can cruise it highway speed without winding the engine out. On a budget you could accomplish the same thing with a tall set of rear tires and a set of 3.54 gears. And on a light, little car like an AV8, it'll still do all the peg-legged burnouts you could ever want. I do plan on driving the hell out of this car as well. I have a bonneville trip planned for august and several 500-1000 mile trips planned over the summer months.
The old hotrodding lifestyle, the real one from back then, was that the cool dudes used the latest stuff to always be on the cutting edge. The new hotrodding lifestyle is, if you can't be cutting edge, spout tradition. I am going ahead with putting in a T5 in a restored original 1951 F1 pickup.
If you just HAVE to feel the early 40s feel and sound of an original hotord, you gotta go with the 3 speed. I put together the "Rocky 33" as Trent refers to it, as a nod to how a guy would ***emble a hotrod in the late 40s...newest part was a 49 ford dash BUT! I actually wanted to drive the little truck in traffic so I went with an S-10 5 speed T-5 and never regretted it. I could have gone with a V/8 quickchange but how many working stiffs in '49 could have afforded one? Not many. The shifter looked old-timey and shifted like ****er...best part was I could run my 46 ford pickup low rear gear and still keep up with traffic. I'll always vote for the T-5. This is me at 150 MPH....er- or so.
Rocky's 33 has always been a favorite of mine. A five speed will definately be going behind the flatty in my pickup project. BTW, the last two T5s that I have come across were advertized for sale as Camero/Firebird. I p***ed on one yesterday until I could check the numbers. Good thing that I did: The 1352 - 071 Borg-Warner number on the tag was Camero alright, but out of a '85 with a 2.8 V6. Not even world cl***. Ya gotta make sure you're getting what you think you are.
Get a hold of Hamber Dubcee.....he's in Enumclaw. He put's T-5's in everything and has the conversion down pat.
I'm not concerned with it being frowned upon. I feel the car will be cool with a 3-speed or a t-5. I'm just wondering if my end goals might be better served with a 3-speed. I was all set for a t-5 before, but recently I've noticed more than a few builds going together with a 3-speed. I'm now questioning whether I might enjoy the driving experience more with the old transmission. thanks for all the replies, keep them coming.
I am running an S10 t5 behind a Flathead in my new roadster and agree that 1st gear is to low. Running 4:11 rear with 31 inch tires. That said i love the rest of the gears and find the ratios great with a flathead. mine has .86 overdrive. so i say go with the t5.
The Jalopy Journal
