We have what we think is an iron duke engine.....looks just like a Chev straight 6 eninge with two cylinders chopped off. We got it at a swap and the fella said it came from a trade school.....it looks like NOS. Anyway, will it fit up to a T5 ****** out of say and S10 or Camaro? With or without adapters...
The S-10 banger is basically the same mill. I don't know if they changed the bolt pattern for the hawgs head on the late model or not, but the ****** should bolt up to the original hawgs head, you may have to space it out at the ****** mounting point because of the length of the input shaft.
If it looks like a 250 inch 6-banger with 2 cylinders lopped off it's not an Iron Duke. It is probably the 153 inch early 60's Chevy II motor. If it has a cross-flow head it's a Duke....if it has the intake and exhaust on the same side it's the 153. I think they both have the same bolt pattern for the bellhousing however....same as the small block V8 and/or the big block. I know the 153 does for sure. Here's an Iron Duke. Note the "scalloped" valve cover. The 153 will have straight sides.
Wha exactly did the iron duke motors come in? I have seen a few of these 4 cyl chevy II motors. My buddy just Traded a Model A pickup with a 4 cyl in it. I think it was a stick but I don't know what ****** it had in it.
The one in my photo came from a '79 Chevy Monza. They were used in MANY GM cars. My Olds Cutl*** Ciera had one mounted sideways. Also used in Pontiac Fieros.
Iron Dukes were introduced around '75 with the Monza and its siblings. Some have cross flow heads, some don't. The front drive engines have less counterweight on the cranks and tend to vibrate more and break things. The interest may be from the fact they are dirt cheap to obtain, reliable, have a vast supply of rear drive components and have a small useful aftermarket which forces hot rodding to its philisophical roots, build everything yourself. Pistons are 301 Pontiac parts, I've seen sets of those advertised at $89 recently. Thats two sets of Duke slugs! Ipicked up a duke from a HAMBer recently for $250 including paying Ironpile to deliver it to me from the St Luois area. The trans was in need of bearings. For under $50 every bearing in the trans can be replaced. A clutch set with T/O bearing is only $100. They are cheap to play with. You will not get alot of power at a low cost, though. Think around 120 - 160 horse power before things get real expensive. That's about where things start breaking, heads stop breathing and money grows wings.
Iron Dukes can also be found in Jeeps from the early 80's. Check with the local Jeep clubs or 4X4 shops as the Jeepers usually tend to pull these motors for something with more ***. You can get the bell housing and all for cheap. I would guess the interest is they have a decent look to them, and with gas prices climbing.... What kind of mileage do these little beauties get anyway??
Iron Duykes cam in Vegas just before they quit makeing them, S-10 Pickups and I think some obscure 4 cylinder cars starting in about '64 or 5. I could be wrong about the beginning of the mill but I'm thinkin' I'm pretty close on that.
I called grandpa to tell him to go out and look at the valve cover. I can't remember......he's about 30 mins. away and I'm playing Mr. mom.... I know people use the term "Iron Duke" on just about all the Chevy inline 4's. So, I'm not real sure which ones are what? I know it has the "funky" carb like my 79 inline 6 has, and it has the HEI style distributor......I think you can use a V8 cap, just skip every other terminal... I'm interested because the old inline 6's were one of the best engines ever made. NOT for power or performance, but reliability and CHEAP (as the other thread) to maintain and rebuild. Tell me if I'm going down the wrong path or not... I don't like modern engines. My theory is they aren't made for the common man and the do-it-yourself person. I drive 70's Chevy trucks for everyday drivers. Not because they are cool or great on gas, but because I can fix them......cheaply and easily. Parts are everywhere! Many of the inline 6 stuff will interchange with the "Duke" (if I"m right) engines. Now, to my point. I'm not looking for hybrid car economy but something better than what I have. I don't like the little S10 engine (computer controlled, demon spawned ****!) So, I was thinking of a heart transplant into one. Cheap and easy to find parts, reliable engine, fairly good economy.....what, say 25mpg? Much better than my 12-15 and I can still drive a truck.
Just from memory, I don't think it's an iron Duke...... I know we put a 6cyl. water pump on it. Fit fine.........I think grandpa used a 6cyl. flywheel on it too (it had an automatic on it). The HEI distributor looks (if memory serves me) just like a SBC distributor.....just with 4 lugs....
There were maybe 3 or 4 generations of this thing--the early Chevy II and various reworkings first for Vega family, then for FWD. Practically everything changed and mutated along the way. I don't know of any simple guide to the family tree. Chevy II and I think the first of the late model uses had standard SBC flange and will use those bellhousings; at some point, the rear of block changed to a much smaller flange, common with I think various 60 degree V6's and such. If flange looks like SBC, it is like SBC. Commercial adapters are/were available for later ones to SBC pattern, but probably cost twice what an engine would...
What cubic inches are the real Iron Dukes, then? And, they DID come in S10's, right? Let's see, 2.2 liter= 134 cubic inches.....I think dad's S10 was a 2.2 liter..
Mine's 2.5L....151 cu. in. as I think most of them are. Larger bore and shorter stroke than the 60's Chevy II motor. Pretty sure the old Vega motor is a whole 'nuther animal completely.
Hmmm...earlies were either 151 or 153, then the second generation went to the other of those numbers. This was when engine was revived and turned over to Pontiac for return to production...after that, all sorts of new versions grew out of it as GM went to front drive. I think the silly 2 cubic inch change had to do with a complete redrawing of the blueprints to metric figures??? $#@$%#@ Commies messing with our numbers...they lost the cold war, why can't we have inches back??
I have a early [62] Chevy II engine, and it looks nothing like a Iron Duke! The head is totally different as are the pan,water pump,fuel pump etc...I might be wrong, but I think this is a hot water 6 with 2 cylinders cut off by GM! The Iron duke Pontiac motor is in my opinion NOT a very good choice for a engine. The heads are prone to crack, and speed parts are astronomical in price for what you get. I agree with the 4 cyl in a Track T, but look around for something a little cooler! How bout a hemi head 4 cyl Dodge Colt motor? Look at some of your JAP ****. Belive it or not they have some very cool looking 4 cylinders & 5 speed set ups! Also very light weight! Let the **** fly.
That's right, that right.....2.5...... Ok, the NON iron duke 153 takes a regular hogs head....V8 style....we bolted one to it. Will the T5 ****** bolt to the V8 hogs head.....I think, from the other postings....YES..... I've got enough junk I don't need now, don't want to buy more that I can't use.......
Hmmmm...I have a 2.8 bellhousing that came with my WC T-5...I think I'll save it. I've wanted a little modified or track roadster stlye car for a while
The duke has been built in 2.5, 2.2 ans maybe 2.0L versions. It morfed into the Tech4 and has been used in Mercruiser applications at 2.5 and 3.0L displacements. The 89 ans later S10, Astro van and mail truck applications have a better crankshaft. They have a different distributor drive from earlier engines, though and require a "normal" distributor be modified or $$$ be spent on an aftermarket unit. My '90 unit has no advance mechanisim. A Merc may be modifiable, I have the part, just haven't looked yet. The Mercruiser aplications are the best, but the head is not crossflow. I have seen the non crossflow heads (automotive) at swp meets, but the cars the engines came in never had any interest for me, so the applications didn't matter.
Thanks all! When I first posted this, I thought that the guru of 70's would respond......Hack, I'm glad you grew up in the 70's.....
Other stuff festering in my memory vaults...I didn't grow up in the seventies, but I was still opening the car mags I bought back then... The Merc version came in at least one displacement version larger than GM engines, and also had a head that rodders coveted. Midget racers used this thing for a while, and there is a LOT of rare and expensive aluminum stuff out there. The more expensive midget versions used pretty much only the block, and had special fron drive covers, dry sump, aluminum head, injectors, etc. As with any old racecar stuff, these things are expensive when they emerge from the ba*****ts of the roundy people. I saw one of these Chevy II engines in a T speedster a couple of years back almost completely covered in repro Frontenac castings--it was pretty hard to tell there wasn't a T engine at the center of the shiny stuff.
Now that's the "Iron Duke" I remember. They put those things in Chevy Novas. My wife had one, what a slug. I thought many parts interchanged with a 283 V-8. The first ones had the intake and exhaust on the same side of the cylinder head. Then they came out with a cross flow head. Bruce and I both remember that they put them in midgets. USAC gave them a cubic inch advantage over the little 4 cylinder Offy's. Racers kept on improving on the Iron Dukes until they out powered the Offy's. That led to the demise of the Offy powered midget. The Mercury Marine engine was supposed to be the best one to use. Can't remember why, but it had better stuff than the p***car engine.
I had a '62 Chevy II that had the 153 ci 4 cyl. It was the first year for this engine and had a front sump. That was continued until the newer body Novas in '68 then they went to a rear sump and it was still available as a Nova engine until 1970. GM sold some of the engines to be used in some postal vehicles in the early 70's. The engine used the same pistons as a 283 V8 but had a different stroke. The bore was 3 7/8 and the stroke was 3.25. Basically half a 307 to get the 153. GM decided the engine was too "old school" to use in the Vega and built the aluminum Vega engine. In 1975 GM released a Pontiac version of the Vega called the Astre. It could be had with the Vega engine only at first. The problem was that the Vega engine already had a bad "rep" by 1975 so Pontiac redid the old ChevyII engine for Astre use. It was made in 4" bore and 3" stroke for 151ci like half a 302. They used an HEI distributor as described above: V8 style cap using every other connection. They were non-computer controlled in 79-80. They used a non-crossflow head like the ChevyII until 1979 when they released the crossflow head. Both the 153 & early 151 used the Chevy V8 bell pattern. Some 151s had 1bbl carbs and some had 2bbl progressive carbs. They used that until 1980 (actually early 1979)when GM needed a 4 Cyl for the new fwd cars. Then things got complicated. They marketed some engines with the old pattern and some with the new fwd small pattern. All the fwd cars have the small pattern as did the Fiero. Eventually ALL the 151's went to the small pattern. They started using two coils and a distributor-less ignition in the late 80's. There were some timing gear problems in fwd cars and some head leak problems. The engines before the fwd release looked like a short 6 cyl and used similar water pumps. The fwd engines had the pump mounted toward the side of the block to make then shorter. There were some 181 early style engines used in boats and marketed by Mercury Marine. They had a head that was different than the ChevyII engine. They also had some dress up parts like aluminum side & valve covers.
Good info!!! If I remember corectly, didn't last time, it has a carb that looks VERY similar to the inline 6 in my 79 truck......same color blue too.... thanks for weighing in...
Model A Vette nailed it ! My '79 Monza IRON DUKE has the V8 bellhousing bolt pattern, the 4" bore X 3" stroke, the HEI ignition, the progressive 2bbl carb, the crossflow head, etc. There is NOTHING on this engine that will interchange with the early 60's Chevy II 153" motor or the Vega 4-banger. Completely different engines ! The orange one is the 153 Chevy II. The dirty blue one is my Duke.
Man, dude, your signature is killing me! My wife didn't laugh for some reason.... Now you guys are really killing me. I'm gonna have to drive out to grandpa's and see what it is......... I'll try to take pics..
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