That would be a long list. The edelbrocks are the best for the money IMO. Their currant head is for round port exhaust, but if you have alot of money in your d-port exhaust they have a new head coming out if you didn't want the KRE alum d-port. You'll want the 72 cc also, remember w/alum heads you want higher compression for the heat loss from cast heads . 10-1 would be prefered w/alum heads for pump gas. http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive_new/misc/company/images/2010npb/pdf/11.pdf
All the aftermarket Pontiac heads are available bare or complete. Some are available semi machined too. Most are also available in different chamber sizes as well. The KRE High Port is probably the best head for the money if you want to make some real horsepower, then Edelbrock second. I would not suggest buying an alum d port head. If you have the money for alum heads, you'd be wise to reap the benefits of using the round port ex style head. Beside the performanxce advantages, they are easier to install, header bolts are spaced better, seal better, etc. the canted CV-1, Tiger and others are in a different price range. Steve Hosting- Thur-Sun April 8-11, 2010 12th annual Pontiac Heaven Phoenix www.pontiacheaven.org Sunday April 11, 2010 8th annual Nostalgic Show & Go! Phoenix www.nostalgicshowandgo.org
Would you guys recommend using my current '76 6X 2bbl 400 heads with some domed pistons to bring the C/R up to 10:1 or swap in the '71 "94" 350 small valve heads that will put me in the 9:1 to 9.5:1 range? I'm not looking for massive power on this current motor, 350+hp and 400lb ft of torque is sufficient for me at this point...or should I just build a custom blower intake and rebuild a 6-71 and keep the stock 7.6:1 6X heads?
Don't use dome pistons as the flame propagation does not work as well as flat tops. You would be better off finding some 16,62,48,12,13, and install as set of stainless steel valves with ampco 45 bronze guides, clean up the ports, and gasket match. That will put you well over 400 hp and middle upper 400 ft lbs of torque with small cam and be totally streetable in a 400. TRW forged pistons with Aces Tomahawk rods will give you all you need. Also the compression will be about 9.8-1 which is perfect for pump gas.The video of my car is what you would have and more if set up right as my heads are untouched except for a quick gasket match. Its a real fun car!! 0-60mph in 3.8 seconds and 0-60 mph with nitrous in 3.2 seconds is a number 10 on the fun factor scale. My engine is as budget as you can get. There are many other ways to build your 400 also but this is just another example of cheap.
I've got a line on a '68 400 out of a Catalina that I'll be running in the car until I get the new motor built, so I've got a LOT of time to go over this...I'm really pushing towards the blower and 6X heads, flat tops, solid cam and aftermarket rods...I like the idea of building my own blower manifold and blower drive, water crossover and whatever other things I feel like machining or fabricating for myself...even if I built a blown Poncho motor, it still wouldn't be pushed to the limits of the parts, if I get 550hp out of the blower motor, I'll be more than satisfied with that...
Here is a picture I took to show the air gap hole used in 1972 and newer Pontiac heads. Steve Hosting- Thur-Sun April 8-11, 2010 12th annual Pontiac Heaven Phoenix www.pontiacheaven.org Sunday April 11, 2010 8th annual Nostalgic Show & Go! Phoenix www.nostalgicshowandgo.org
Here is a pic of the exhaust side of a 1972 7K3 head which was standard on the GTO and GP that year. It has all the desirable features except a place to put header bolts. I used these heads on a street 70 GTO in the early 90s and ran 12.80s with a 2.56 rear gear and headers. Even without the bolt provisions, I did not have ex leak issues. Still, the 6X head is a better choice. Steve
You gents are overlooking something here. When you refer to "7.6:1 6X heads" you may be not understanding the whole picture. Pontiac went to 7.6:1 compression in 1975, true, but, it was not because of the heads. Pontiac pistons from the '7.6 era' have a 45 degree machined area on the outer edge of the piston top. That is how Pontiac dropped compression ratio further, not in the heads. Your '7.6' heads are only that number with those stock, machined pistons. If you are doing a rebuild and use a flat top piston, your compression ratio will up. Something to keep in mind. Steve
I think my '76 6X heads are around 102cc chambers, if I recall correctly from the Wallace Racing website, so along with the chamfered pistons that explains why the low compression...if I were to put the same size 2.11/1.77 valves in my '76 6X heads and a pair of '71 94 heads, would the 6X's outflow the 94's? What I mean to ask is, is there a major difference in port and chamber size/shape between the two? I want to use the smaller cc chamber from the 94 heads, but not if the ports are going to choke the motor down significantly...
I never got into all the numbers on pontiac motors, but it reminds me when I was 15 I bought a 65 gran prix that had the real wood dash and floor shifter, but what I thought was cool back then was it had factory chrome valve covers and air cleaner, dual valve springs, 4-bolt main block/ found that out after running it over a gravel pile on a new road and ripping holes in the oil pan and 400 trans. pan. I could peg the speedometer out and run it for hours like that. Dad said It was to fast when I got it, but gave in after awhile. Wish I had it now for just the motor alone.
If the motor is as you described, your car had one of the 3 optional 421 engines. Standard 389 GP engine had 2 bolt mains and painted valve covers. All Pontiac V-8s had dual valve springs, even the 2bbl low performance versions. Pontiac was #3 in total sales from 1961-1969 and that is no small accomplishment. There were 100s of thousands of cool Pontiacs running around at the time. Today, you rarely see a Pontiac at a cruise in night or car show. Even fewer are modified which is sad indeed. As for me, I would never drive a stocker, every Pontiac I own is hot rodded in some capacity. Groucho- glad the picture helped explain it. Steve
Can you keep an eye out in your area for a pretty clean 60 Pontiac 2-door hardtop? Not a show car, but a pretty nice driver. Thanks
I don't know about you guys, but there's shitloads of Pontiacs around here, but they're all O/T for this forum...I never cared for Pontiac's styling in their 50's cars, none of em look very appealing to me...
I have this one, pretty straight, no int, less eng trans. a good builder for a rat rod, beater or race car to cut up. $1,500 including bumpers and most of the outside. I have some int parts too for a little more if interested. Steve Thur-Sun April 8-11, 2010 12th annual Pontiac Heaven Phoenix www.pontiacheaven.org Sunday April 11, 2010 8th annual Nostalgic Show & Go! Phoenix www.nostalgicshowandgo.org
Nice car, but too heavy for me...I like oddball combinations like this one...it's got a long way to go, but it should scoot pretty well with all the help you guys have given me...
I'm looking for less of a project. BUT, supplies are running out. PM me your number. I'd like to know more about what's there (or not there), and see more pics.
It's funny what you southern guys call a beater, that's a restoration project up here...the nicest cars we find up here are out in the oil fields in North Dakota...everything else is rotten...
Maybe you should pick up a few books on grammar and spelling also. Then some of these people will take you a little more serious. Also you are not the only one that know Pontiac's. I have busted alot of knuckes and torn a bunch of skin pulling Pontiac engines and building them. I have also read pretty much every bit of literature that has been written on Pontiac's that pertain to the 1965 on up engines. Oh and I don't forget the details. You also should be letting this dead dog lie!
Here's a set of 7K3s that I had and sold to a friend years ago. I was remodeling his bathroom and low and behold, he still has them. So as far as the question about the 7K3s not having much meat between the head bolt and the outer exhaust bolt, here is a measurement. I'd say 3/16ths or .1875 of an inch. Thats definately not enough to tap and hold an exhaust bolt. This head was brazed and tapped when I got it.
Lotta goofy posts in this thread. Are 73-74 4X heads set up for unleaded? They perform reasonable? Any better than '77 heads?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sporadic/3851224482/ Here this is easier. I actually like the truck but I don't like the stuff in front of the grill. It would look killer with a straight axle without all the stuff in front of the grill. Also I was never a fan of that type of rim. Also the Pontiac engine looks like it is tilting too much, 3 degrees is max. as the intakes on most cars are built with 3 degrees into their intakes so the carb sits flat. Or in your case, carbs. Oh and its only my opinion about your truck, you can build it anyway you like just as I'm building mine the way I want. I doubt that we will ever meet as I have everything where I live and I don't really think there are many big attractions where it would bring me to where you live. I'd rather go to Ireland, Scottland, England, Germany or any warm climate in the US that have tropical terrain. Sorry. I just sold some of my (4) 455s and one came back, now I am selling parts from it. 1973 455, .040 over crack in the valley and in one cylinder. The .040 pistons are perfect as is the crank. Heads are huge 455 4X heads. Timing cover and water pump are decent. Pan has factory baffle. I bought this engine 20 years ago and am just cleaning shop and wouldn't you know I have saved a garbage block for 20 f'ing years! Still have a 455 4 bolt I am keeping and a 400 that I am keeping for spares. I am lucky I have a crapload of parts from collecting for 30 years but now its time to sell off some of my crap as all my cars are complete and I am now into building my Hotrod. After this one, I'll build another. I am just going to drive my Firebirds like I always have and worry about parts when and if they break. I can actually use my shop for building now!! And the heaters kicking ass! I have been cleaning for 2 weeks straight and still need another week at least. I'm feeling good!!! I have a shop again!!!!
Answer- it depends. 4x heads are the most 'generic' Pontiac heads made and the differences in them is considerable. There are large chamber versions and huge chamber versions. Small valve and big valve, some have screw in studs and some do not. With that said, no one can give you a real answer. On another note, it may depend on what you are building, size, supercharged or not, etc. Generally speaking the 6x head is usually the best choice for a street engine. Steve Hosting- Thur-Sun April 8-11, 2010 12th annual Pontiac Heaven Phoenix www.pontiacheaven.org Sunday April 11, 2010 8th annual Nostalgic Show & Go! Phoenix www.nostalgicshowandgo.org
What did we start? Hmmm. I just pointed out your grammar as I have pretty much read every post that has been on this thread and every time I read your posts, its hard to read. That must mean you are always in a hurry. Try slowing down a little and re read what you type before hitting send. Here's a little helping hand http://www.iespell.com/download.php . I don't usually comment on peoples spelling and grammar but yours is pretty bad all the time and as I stated earlier, you may know what you are doing and you may talk like you know what you are doing but when you type, it comes across as if you are an illiterate hillbilly. Not to say that you are but it just seems to come across that way. Peace!
Here's one for you pontiac guys.. '63 326 with '68 350 pistons.. am I going to have valve clearance problems due to the change in valve angle between the early and later engines? Actually I just got the engine pulled out of my '63 lemans and torn down to find it has been bored and fitted with 350 pistons. yep .095 overbore. I sonic checked it today and had have a range of .125 - .175 on the walls. The thinnest is not of a thrust side either. I'll get to checking valve clearance soon, but we're rediculously busy at work, so it might be a while. just thought I'd see if anyone has used a later piston in an earlier block without clearance problems
4X heads are probably the most hardest to figure what ones you have as Applecrate pointed out. If you buy a set of 4X from a 455, you will have huge chamber heads, they also had pressed in stud 400 4x heads, screw in 4x heads, small valve, big valve etc etc. Read Pete MCartheys book and there's a full page on 4Xs. The 6X 4s are the better of the 6X heads. I just sold a set a couple days ago. I believe all 4 X heads are set up for unleaded. I don't have a problem running the high performance small chamber big valve 1968-69-70 heads on any of my cars with unleaded gas. When I had my #16 heads redone about 15 years ago, the machinist said they looked flame hardened from the factory as they were blue'd around the seats. He told me there was no need for hardened seats with them. I have been abusing them now for 15 years at high rpms every chance I get! Also my other engines get abused on pump gas also with no sign of giving up. They are all 72 cc heads. I also have a couple sets of Edelbrocks so thats why I got rid of the 6X 4s. Don't forget the 5Cs as they are good also. Same as the 6 xs just harder to find.
Well, I'm picking up a '57 Pontiac 4 door hardtop this spring and it's got a 347/Hydramatic in it. It'll be a cruiser car so I'm not looking to hop it up at all but, it does have a "knock" to it that gets louder as it warms up. Is it more likely to be con rod bearings, wrist pin slop or just low oil pressure?...I plan on dropping the oil pan as soon as I get it home to check the con rods for excessive play and any trash in the pan, can I pick up a new oil pump and pickup tube from the local Napa, or is it going to be a pain to track one down? Essentially I just want it to be a local cruiser for the small town area, no Interstate driving until it gets rebuilt...so...am I going to have any issues with the 347 and Hydramatic, or are they as dependable as the rest of Pontiac's engines?...
The '55 -'58 engines have a different oil pump than the '59 and later engines, it won't be easy to find at any local parts store.
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