Tech week- Installing '56 Oldsmobile headlights on your custom.

Just like anything else, there are tons of different techniques to do a headlight treatment on a car. I like to keep things simple. In this thread i'll show you how I am doing mine.

First things first: Here is my car, a '53 Desoto Powermaster(hey, look at that a '53 Desoto with the grill still intact!)http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=516827

This car is going to be my family friendly cruiser, just a mild custom. Future plans involve '56 Packard tails, '56 Buick portholes, lowering the rear, and a decent two-tone paint job.

I sourced these '56 Olds headlight assemblies from a local junkyard. I made sure to cut far back enough into the fender so that i would not warp the good material that i needed.

Notice the widows peak over the bulb, and the peak running along the top of the fender.


The first step in this project is to remove the existing headlight assembly from both peices. Real simple, just a few phillips head screws and they are out.



Next step is removing the paint and surface rust from the areas your working on. (no need for a pic here)

Then comes a trial mock up. Here we can get an idea of what the end product will look like, AND we will see what material will need to be removed to make everything flow perfectly.

After this step you can start trimming away the extra metal on the olds' fender a little bit at a time. Then set it back on to check for fit, you will most likely repeat this about 20+ times to make sure you got it just right.

Here is a top view of the fender. Eventually I am going to extend the peak the entire length of the fender.


Once you have your new piece trimmed to where it looks good set it ontop of your fender to where it is going to be. Then take a soap stone/sharpi and run it along the outside edge of the new headlamp extension. The line you have drawn will allow you to see what metal can be removed from your old fender. I like to leave as much meat on the original fender as possible, this way it will be less likely to warp while welding.


Now its time to align the new piece. I took a straight edge to the top of the fender and eyeballed the horizontal plain. If you get this part wrong your finished fender will either look like its taking a dive up front, or it will look like its sagging in the center.

Then i ran a string down the fender where i thought the peak should go.


Once everything is squared away its time to tack weld the piece in place. If your working on a car that still has the glass intact make sure to cover the glass while welding. A welding spark could destroy your windshield. The same goes for grinding or cutting sparks.

Then finish weld while keeping close attention to your technique so that you do not have warping issues. I make a 1/2" weld then make the next weld 2"-3" away so the heat is not concentrated in one place.


Then comes the peak at the top of the fender. This is simple. Just take a piece of sheet metal(i used 22ga.) and make a bend in the center matching the existing peak on the olds' fender. This can be any length you think suits your car. I stopped mine mid-fender. Tack weld it in place. I may go back and weld this solid before filler, im on the fence about it right now.


There you have it. The rest is grinding the welds, and bondo/lead. Heres what the re-assembled fender looks like before grinding and filler.

 

This is an "in progress post"
please bear with me, im doing all of this as we speak. Literally in the shop hacking away.

I'll edit the original post as i make progress.

Thanks

 

Go, man, go!




BloodyKnuckles

 

What are you going to do about the moisture and water that gets trapped between the two overlapped fender pieces? From the pictures, it looks like you just made the hole bigger in the old fender opening so the bucket fits in. Did you just put the new fender portion on top of the old fender? Don't get me wrong, I think it is a great customizing idea but there will be rust issues down the line.

 

POR-15 and undercoating after I replace then inner fenderwell. What you dont see in the pictures is the amount of rott that is hiding inside the fender, and the few pieces that are currently missing. When all is said and done, everthing will be sealed, But yes there will be a pocket between the new fender and old. I don't see this being a problem, its really no different than the space inside a rocker panel.

 

How far does the old fender extend under the new one? Did you put POR-15 between them before welding? I am a little confused.

 

Nice custom touch, can't go wrong with those headlights, but.....

Why not just trim the old fender and Butt weld it?

 

x2 ....you're asking for a lot of trouble down the line with that pocket between the two fender skins. The best way is always to butt weld sheetmetal.

just my .02

 

X2 on trimming out the original fender and butt welding the Olds part on. You can never seal that up so it will not rust down the line. I like the way you did the peak, and other then the overlap of panels, it's a very good tech.

 

With the POR-15 there shouldn't too big of an issue, but I don't know if POR-15 eventually rusts. The only problem with the pocket is all of the potential moisture build up over time, but like I said if POR-15 holds up for a long time you should have any worries....at least for a long time.

EDIT: Forgot to add, it's awesome you're customizing this thing instead of taking the grille and leaving the rest for history!! Great stuff.

 

He said he liked to leave as much of the old fender as possible to avoid warp-age while welding. I guess that anyone doing this at home could go back in and cut more out with a cut-off tool, but the inner fender will protect it from road spray.

 

The POR will burn from welding and the bottom of your weld area will rust.

I would get a cut off wheel and cut the metal out under the new sheet metal before you weld it up. I have done this in the past:
1) tack the new piece on top of the old
2)cut the old metal right at the edge of the new metal 6" or so at a time. Gives a good small gap to weld if you are careful
3)weld 4" of the 6" area cut 1" at time while stretching the 1/4" area ea side of the weld after welding each inch
4) repeat steps 1-3

 

Lets face it guys, rust is an inevitable problem. Nothing we do will last forever. Atleast not on the East coast. Like Unclee said, the inner fender will block most of the stuff coming from the ground. This car will be undercoated heavily.

49Flatty- the original fender does go about 90% of the way into the new "extension". With the headlight bucket out there is still plenty of room to be able to spray in some protection. True, I won't be able to get everything minute crack but i'll be able to get most of it. As Maglusis said, it would've burnt away anyways.

Im not a fan of butt-welding, especially on large surfaces like this one. Way to many things can go wrong causing more work in the end.

 

the problem is yours is already rusting, right now, today, this very instant.

butt welding is the only way to go with kind of deal, less filler, less problems down the road.

I love the look but its not going to last.

Edit: if you read this tech post http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=568646 he shows how you can overlap, and then cut the 2 parts together to get a near perfect seam and you wont have to cut all your work out.

 

By "inner" fender, do you mean the original fender? The true inner fender protects the engine compartment from road splash, not the bottom side of the fender. Butt welding is the way it needs to be done. It is very easy to do. You are asking for trouble this way. You compare this to a rocker panel but it is way different. In essence, you have a big scoop behind the headlight bucket drawing in wind and water into it. It will always have moisture in it and will rust the bare metal areas that you could not get the undercoating and por-15 unto very quickly. You can easily still buttweld the piece now before continuning.

 

Well. I do like the over all look. For sure. It will look killer when done.

But if you spit shine a turd, you still get shit in your mouth. But welding SLOWLY is fine. Keep it cool with compressed air or a fan. Tack and walk away. No need to rush anyway. Besides, you ended up welding the entire thing all the way around anyway. The water that the car will see WILL cause this to rust away. POR or not. How can you prep the area for POR if the thing is welded over the top anyway?

 

Jay is correct it will not last long. If left out even in nice weather the dew point will cause the overlapped areas to rust through rather quickly. One of the main reasons for this is moisture getting trapped in between the panels and not drying out . This remaining moisture will constantly feed the oxidation process and result in a perforation in the middle of the overlapped area. A butt is not that difficult and if properly primed,sealed and topcoated underneath will last as long if not longer than any other panel on the car.

For some reason I am starting to remember old posted threads about how upset someone was about work done on a car they just bought.

 

No, that was going to be capped. I attempted to explain that when i said that i still have to add and replace a few parts on the inside/underside of the fender. Perhaps when i said "inner fender" I should have used a different choice of wording.

Looking back at it now, the ''pocket'' idea would be a definate moisture trap. When I go back and make the repairs stated above I am also going to remove the extra metal from the original fender, and weld the inner seam.

Thanks for the constructive critisism everyone.

 

OLD SKOOL, but i thought you cut the fender & weld olds. piece in . I sold the same stuff to a guy in Yuma & he did just that . (came out kool)
KEEP POSTED

 

not to sure how your headlight alignment is going to be. using a straight edge on top of the fender might help up and down alignment but not running a straight edge across from headlight to headlight, how can you tell side to side alignment is right? i think your choice of parts is cool but looking for short cuts never works out.

 

lap joints are not that big of a deal... Gene Winfield has been doing them for a LONG time

 

doesn't mean it is right. As pointed out. Of course, if you do not care, then do whatever. But I bet you would not tell the guy you sold your car to that you did it that way would you? I bet it wouldn't sell unless you got a guy that has NO clue.

 

Worst case, i would at least cut the pieces out from the bottom maybe an inch smaller than your welded area that way you can get a good coat of paint on the bottom side of your weld and all of the sheet metal.

Not trying to bust your chops. The head lights look good...just would hate to see the hard work be in vein when you start getting rust bubbles under your fenders.

 

ah, yea. actually i would, were to anyone ask. would i leave an entire fender under there... no.

 

Good! Honesty is best right? A full fender would really be funny! I took apart a 64 impala that had 2 quarter panels lapped over a rusty one. That was fun to deal with.

 

Are both sides done yet, pics?

 

Nope. Between work, the wifey, and Joey the Third(my 2year old) time to work on my own toys has become pretty scarce.

Sorry, I do not have any pics at this time. Since my last post i went back and trimmed away all of the left over metal as close as possible to the new weld, then i welded the underside so there was no place for moisture to collect. Then I started on body filler, I have about 4 hours in block sanding so far. I think I have it pretty straight now, may need one more light coat. I also removed the POWERMASTER emblems and welded the holes. After filler, but before primer, I will cut holes in the fender to mount four '56 buick portholes per side. I'll try and post up more pics by the end of the weekend IF i can break free.

I haven't even started the other fender yet.

 

Well if Gene Winfield does it then it must be the best way. Baleigh should have given me $1000 to read this thread.

Put this up on your Winfield shrine. File that under Maybelline.

 

Gene Winfield is the man, he has been doing his thing since before you were in diapers. Show some fucking respect, and don't bash the guy on a public forum.

 

Here is a "finished" shot of the fender. I say "finished" because I still need to re-work the grill surround.