Hot Rods The Belly Button Bucket Build Thread

Only if NYS DMV requires fenders. Actually the front brake brackets are forged steel, so I’m good with that. And yes they are heavy.

 

Short clip demonstrating the tri power tuning paid off, hitting it from a roll in 2nd and getting through most of 3rd. I think this is about as good as I can do, might look at the video on a larger screen later to see how the AFR is looking at the top of 3rd, but overall I’m very pleased.

 

Awesome! Okay, I’m sending you some carburetors and a manifold. Just set it all up same as that…

 

Sounds killer on a phone so I bet that’s really great in person!

 

Short update. I bought a Dragy awhile back, and I haven’t had a chance to try it. To explain the thought process, I want to establish some repeatable performance metrics so I can test different intake manifolds and carburetor setups. I’ve been working on a lot of these and not showing them off. Perhaps I will soon. But the intent of the Dragy is to collect data to compare these different setups, because dyno time would bankrupt me and I doubt PIR would let me run the 1/8 on Wednesdays during the summer cruise-ins… but I’m still gonna ask. Anyway, I will need to find a spot of acceleration where the tires are not spinning, and where the speed doesn’t get too excessive. So, that’s the why.

I have some things that will likely require me to remove the body to fix. That means it would be nice if I had a close to empty fuel tank. So… kill two birds with one stone and try out the Dragy. On a closed course, of course. What I learned:

1. I need to spend significant time learning how to launch the car. First attempt was … sketchy…. might as well have been on ice… Below is second attempt, where I just walked it off the line and was 3/4 throttle 1st and half of 2nd… felt it kick sideways when I went full throttle lol… sigh… I’m probably letting off a little early for 1/8 mile time because my brain is saying that’s fast enough.

2. Microphone inside trailer hitch tube is actually decent.

3. Dragy is very humbling.

4. Best I can tell off the mph, I’m probably shifting about 5,000rpm. I’ve tried staying in it longer and you can feel it nose over - maybe that’s not the right way to say it, but it stops pulling. I believe a different intake will yield better results. I believe this cam should carry to 6,000 (with a different intake), and now I have the means to collect that data.

5. I need to put the dash back in so I can see important stuff.

That being said, here it is:

 

Yeah fees like you could wring it out a little more for sure. But I get that the seat of the pants O meter says “hey this is a bad idea” sometimes and ya gotta reel it in haha

 

"If it was easy, everyone could do it".
The one time I took my stick shift car to the strip after driving it for almost a year, it also wasn't the expected numbers and it had a lot to do with the nut behind the wheel.
There is a reason why there were hired guns for magazine testing of cars and especially bikes.
I will repeat something you have heard and know to be fact. Make one change at a time.
BTW, congrats on the testing. It should give you incentive during those long sanding sessions.

 

I need to learn to not do T bucket things before bed. My adrenaline was going late into the night thinking about it lol. Anyway, I looked at the video and watched the mph at shift points. Then, looking at gear ratio chart for trans gears, rear gear, tire diameter, I concluded I would m***ively benefit from a tach.

So best guess based on mph: 1st gear shifted at 4,800. 2nd at 5,400. 3rd I backed out at 5,000. So that right there shows the inconsistency just in shifting. Once I get the dash in with gauges, and figure out how to launch it, I think it will be pretty good. I really didn’t get on it until 2 seconds in.

Gonna scheme least invasive method to fix rear suspension bottoming, in-tank fuel pump wiring/plumbing, fuel gauge wiring, dash install, gauges. Portland Transmission is May 9th, so I wanna make sure the car is together for that.

 

Pair up dragy with a GoPro or something similar, looking forward and getting the gauges as well. That will give you a bigger picture of what is happening.

Funny you mention this today. I came across something that I made for Jim years ago to monitor suspension action. And it used video to be the data recorder. Looking forward with this device and the gauges, his hands on the steering wheel and seeing the track was very helpful. BTW electronic data recorder systems were not allowed, but in-car cameras were. So we got creative…

 

I'm amazed Dave didn't mention Mini rubber suspension for the rear bottoming issue.
https://www.minispares.com/steering-suspension-brakes/30/3014/

Judging from this pic, if you like the ride height, the only real answer is a stiffer spring. Unless you redo things, there isn't much space for coilovers or add-on stuff. Is it hitting the frame at the axle tubes or the spring?

 

That will take more than a minute to come from across the pond.
Tim, I have these short urethane bumpers from Energy Suspension on my three projects.
Summit, Jegs, etc have them, they can be mounted directly to the lower face of the kickup or on the side with an angle bracket, for the ch***is' thin wall tubing fine thread bolts can be used without scarring up exhisting paint from welding, and a couple drops of Loc***e for added insurance.

Lots of styles
Here:
https://www.google.com/search?clien...HR0zGqwQtKgLegQIHxAB&biw=1280&bih=800&dpr=1.5

 

If he's got the room, I'd prefer a rising rate rubber over urethane. But this thread shows Tim is resourceful and competent.

 

I thought I was bottoming out with the top of housing hitting floor of pickup bed, but I have 2.5+” there with car fully loaded, a mock up driver, and every intake manifold/carb setup I could stack in/on the car. I also have adequate clearance between axle tubes and frame rails. What I don’t have, is adequate clearance between the driver side frame rail and ladder bar bracket. In my haste to ***emble the ch***is, I believe the rear axle is in the frame crooked. I did zero measuring this time of the rear suspension, and it’s obvious in this picture, although it appears exaggerated from reality. I just need to square up the rear end and that should solve the problem.

 

Yee hah! Better than rework.
Strange but good it launches well. Time to measure things. That will kick the driveshaft over a little, too. Check clearance thru travel.

 

Does tire to body tell the same tale?
The ch***is pic looks like only an inch?

 

The difference side to side at the frame is about 1/4”, hard to measure under there. The tires are roughly the same, hard to measure that too since the body is not the same side to side. During mock up, I’ve had everything taped out to zero difference left to right in cross measurements, and zero difference from front centerline of ch***is to both right and left rear axle, rear centerline of ch***is to both right and left front axle. All of those were the same side to side. And the tires fit the body fine etc. I just was in a hurry and probably put the left ladder bar on the right side of the car, or something like that. It’s probably a difference of two turns or less on the bar adjustments. I had the rear axle out at some point, I don’t remember why. But that’s likely when it happened.

 

I just realized what you said here. Mini “springs” would be way too stiff, even though a Mini is very lightweight, those springs are actuated through bellcrank systems, the front on a 5:1 ratio and the back on a 3:1 ratio. And even then the ride is pretty solid. There’s not much travel in either end. Mopar pinion snubbers might be a good option. The Mopar guys can probably answer this correctly, however I think they were rising rate and had different options as well.

 

For hot rod bump stops, the one I’ve heard over and over is the Energy Suspension beehives. I have a pair at home - they are very compact and would be easy to fab mounts for. If I end up making bumptstops, these are what I’ll use - but because my issue is a misalignment, I probably won’t make them as I should have plenty of travel once the rear is square in the ch***is.

 

If you don’t end up using them, send them my way. I might have a clearance issue with the rear axle. I’ve been meaning to check it out, but you know why that hasn’t happened yet…

 

Update time- made a “must have” and a “nice to have” to do list before Portland Transmission Show (May 9th). My new strategy is to set small project goals with events I want to take the car to throughout the year - the intention to keep it running and driving, instead of “blowing it apart for paint”, never to see the light of day ever again. Paint will happen eventually, but I want to address the other stuff first.

First on the list was rear suspension contact issue. Did a lot of measuring, squared front and rear suspension, came to the conclusion the ladder bar brackets were too close for comfort to the frame to just put it back together and cross my fingers. Decided to cut the c-notches for a larger radius, which would give ample space for both suspension travel and bump stops. I’d bought a plasma cutter a few months ago, gave myself a crash course in the driveway, and went for it. Fit the notches, welded, blended with paint as best I could, bolted back together. Seems like it will work well. Will update with more as I get stuff crossed off the list.

 

Ouch, but glad to see something you didn't like no longer an issue.

 

How does one eat an elephant..........one bite at a time!

 

A pretty big bite at that!

 

Update with another “must have” upgrade to the T: an in-tank fuel pump with a return style regulator. In the process of scheming this out, I wanted to make the car as serviceable as possible. Removing the body showed me a few areas where improvements could be made to make it easier to work on.

After a lot of back and forth, I committed to making the fuel lines for the in-tank setup. They will be mounted to the body, so to remove the body, you would just drain the tank, then disconnect from regulator to carb and the fuel system comes off with the body, or if desired, sending unit and pump harness quick disconnect, AN hoses are disconnected, and 4 bolts removes the tank.

Hopefully next update shows wiring serviceability upgrades, but for now this is where I’m at.

 

Top notch stuff Tim!
Serviceability is such an important thing to build in to any project.

 

On mine I made these nifty tunnels for radius rod clearance



As soon as I started driving it the rear spring was rock hard, so I trimmed some springs back to act as more of a spacer than spring. Next thing ya know the damn things are hitting the body because the springs are settling, I re-arched the spring but it didn't last long.
If I ever tore mine apart like you are, I'd move the radius rod brackets to partially under the rear and then maybe make a longer spring shackle to draw the spring in a bit.
Always something with these "simple" cars

 

Whirlwind of the past week with not the best pictures. Portland Transmission Show is this Saturday morning, so I gotta start putting the car back together to make it.

I more or less re-wired the car. The intent being to tidy up and add disconnects for ease of service and maintenance. After removing the body, it was obvious there was room for improvement. Similar to keeping the fuel lines with the body for removal, the majority of the wiring will stay with the body upon removal as well.

In the picture below, you can see the rear harness going from under the p***enger seat to the pickup bed. This stays intact during body removal. I did not take a picture of the front harness, because a few minutes after it was finished, the body was back on. But for the front harness, there are 3 disconnects at the firewall- an engine harness, headlight and turn signal harness, and a horn harness. One more thing of note in the picture below, I patched the two holes in the floor that were notched for the driveshaft and driveshaft loop.



I never fully explained the battery situation, but it’s two 500cca lithium ion batteries wired in parallel, and the rest of what you see is mimicking what David Freiburger did with the F-Rod. My intention was to copy the safety aspect of what he did with the smallest form factor I could come up with. This setup gives me 1,000cca that weighs about 5lbs and takes up about half the space of a similar capacity lead acid. I added a quick disconnect for the 4 small wires. So removing the battery is charge wire, start wire, 4-wire plug, and big ground wire.



The last thing I finished was swapping out the 7” King Bees with Holley LED retrofit bulbs ($$$$) to 5 3/4” fog lamp King Bees that I converted to LEDs by using a sealed beam to H4 bulb housing and LED bulbs with H4 sockets… much cheaper to do it this way. While I was at it, I made the headlights and turn signals easily removable with disconnects. Sorry for lack of detailed photos, been busy!

 

Top notch. I've been pondering this same thing; disconnects between body and ch***is, but thinking the other way. Main harness on ch***is, with disconnects at body. Yours is probably smarter since all the controls and gauges add up to more circuits than the front (engine, lights, horn) and rear (lights, fuel sender, pump). Gotta readjust my plan! Only issue is the weight of body to lift. Probably less than 5 pounds all in.
I do want to keep the fuel system on the ch***is for mine, though. I will consider both choices since my bed isn't finalized yet.

 

What makes sense to me is big wires stay with the ch***is, small wires stay with the body, with a disconnect at the firewall for the small wires going to engine, headlights, etc.

 

As extreme as it looks this does 1: show you if your planning to do this was thorough enough 2: tips the bandaid off of trying it.

if you can pop the body on and off in 20 minutes with an extra pair of hands it would make ch***is service a heck of a lot easier in the future.