Projects The bucket of ugly! A de-uglifying thread...

Thanks Tman, I ended up buying this one and will probably be fabricating an aluminum tank to mount it on.
Larry



Tim, I like what you have done and the looks of your car. I agree that you need a better tank and probably lose the front mounted one.
I'm still sorry to see that you aren't going with the steel body, however you can always drive yours and build another one

 

I guess I missed the part about it being open season on Tim's T, but I just can't help myself sometimes, so...

I don't own a T. I've never owned a T. So my credibility on Model T's is zero. But...

I see Tim's T as a real gem in the rough, much like Chip's before he started - good bones but short on the fine details of proportion. The good news, however, is that I think these fine points would be fairly easy to fix.

I am decidedly fond of the early version of the Ivo T and the Kookie version of Norm's T. This fondness colors my opinions about Tim's car which could, with a few changes, be brought into the same fine balance of proportion as these two notable examples.

If it was mine to do - which it absolutely isn't! - I'd raise the rear of the body 4" to 6" inches above where it's at now, leaving the rear suspension alone.

I'd then use a deeper suicide drop in front to lower the front suspension system by about 4" - maybe a taste more. I'd be very tempted to stretch the wheelbase ahead of the radiator a couple of inches at the same time, but this would not be a "must".

And finally I'd go with 15" wheels with tall cheaters like Chip's in the rear and tiny radials in front, again like Chip's. I'd go with early Ford solids, but that would be absolutely a matter of personal taste.

This would, I think, give the car "attitude" which it now lacks...imho.

So...there's another worthless "bellybutton" opinion from a guy who knows absolutely nothing. But it's offered with the best of intentions.

 

It's shop night at chips, anything comes up, we talk and share, and has no specific issue as long as it's about Buckets or related.

If you at rubber rake you stay in same era, if you raise body you go to kookie era. Wouldn't match the wires, windshield and old light.

I like lightning bug or modified with bed look and era.

 

Just got Ivo's biography out again and came across this picture. Probably not long after it was finished. I think the two fours were probably the first of the mods. he made to the nailhead. The car has a really nice look. In his book he refers to Grabowsky's roadster as "cartoonish".

 

Tim, I love what you have here. Not every Bucket has to be a copy of Norms car and i dig the wires, its YOUR touch. I even like the rake, although a slight increase would be good but overall I really like it....except the Moon tank, surely you could fab a rectangular unit of the same (or more) capacity as the two combined that would fit in the bed. Its very cool all the same. JW

 

Tim, you posted "if you find a better tank" Make one or have one made that fits down in the box, maybe with a small sump on the bottom, the round one doesn't take advantage of the limited space. I don't mind the wires, they look pretty good, but that windshield needs to come back 2 or 3 inches...imo...nice car.

 

You know guys,
I have spent too long trying to justify why I have two tanks, and you're right. The front one doesn't look right. I think that from a head on view, it looks awesome, but from any other angle, it looks awkward. So I think it needs to go bye bye. I know I tried MANY tanks before I landed on this combo, but with the body only being channeled 1.5" now, I bet I can reconsider a few options that got nixed in round one. I have some rectangular tank dimensions that I found online, so I will head out and do some measuring after work this afternoon. If those don't work, I'm not opposed to making my own tank; I've just never done it before. What material(s) are typically used, and what thickness? I suppose I could talk my buddy into letting me borrow/use his bead roller and TIG welder, and I might have access to a brake, but my personal sheet metal tools are somewhat limited. I have a 110 MIG, some hand shears, a jig saw, and cut off wheels at my disposal. Ideas? Can we show off our fuel tanks, please?

 

Tim, like everybody else has said, I hope you don't think I'm beating up on ya for a couple of comments.

Let me lay one truth on ya about life in a "bucket, and it's something I have to constantly reinforce with a couple of my clients as well...
You really don't need the fuel capacity of a super tanker in these cars! Honestly, a five gallon tank isn't horrible, and it looks as though your rear tank might actually be a seven gallon unit to my eye. See, the thing is, these cars are super light, and even with my well worn and slightly hopped 283, driving like a teenager, around town I'm putting down 20mpg. Out on the road, I've guestimated more like 24mpg. When I started this, my goal was to be able to go 120 miles with out needing fuel. that's the longest stretch I can think of in Arizona or California between gas stops, so that is my target range no matter what I build. the ten gallon tank in my car will theoretically get me as far as 240 miles, but there is a bigger deal involved here....

I don't WANT to be in this thing for a full 240 miles!!! If you haven't put down any real miles in a 'bucket in particular, you might not know that these cars will beat you positively shitless in far less time than it takes to go 240 miles! Long trips in my car, so far have been punctuated with stops every 60-75 miles just to hoist myself out and walk a bit. It's not uncomfortable by any stretch, but the wind and environment around you does a great job of beating you up. Having the excuse of having to stop for gas keeps the group you may be traveling with together, and doesn't make you look like the village wimp in front of your friends. Trust me on this one....

 

Tim, I would use 16 or even 14 gauge steel, no need for beads maybe even stainless. once you have your dimentions, find a shop to bend up the tank so you only have the corners and the top to weld. I have made some tanks before, but just out of steel, I will be making one for another project soon out of stainless, I think stainless is the better option. If you don't feel confident on welding one, tack it together and have a shop do the final welding.

 

Tim, I'll be mocking up a tank for my bed out of cardboard and masking tape, when I get to it I'll post a couple of pictures.
The material I'll use is aluminum, 11 gauge about 1/8". Tig welded of course.
I think aluminum is a better choice than steel or even stainless and I find it easier to work with.
That won't be true for everyone though.
Also the tank will be bent up so that there will be one long horizontal seam, a baffle to tack in and ends to weld on.

 

Listen to Chip on this Tim one hundred miles in a bucket is all you'll want to go. You'll be ready for as our friends down under say a "walkabout". The only reason I changed mine is the bigger tank I put in mine actually took up less room in the bed as the one I had.

 

I made my tank from 3mm (1/8'') aluminium, its 230 mm square with 2 baffles. JW

 

My T has been driven a lot and on some long trips.
10 or 11 gallon tank combined with a thirsty 454 gives it what we call a "2 hr Tank" on the highway.
That usually leaves about 2 gallons in the tank when we refuel and a little stretch goes a long way in the comfort dept!
BTW...NEVER leave home without a selection of tinted and clear glasses or goggles and never hit the highway without ear plugs.
The guys aren't kidding about the beating you take while you wear that ear to ear grin driving the thing!

 

Tim, one more addition to the tank discussion, some kind of sump or baffle set up to keep the pick up covered when the level starts getting low is also a good idea. My car doesn't have one, therefore I try to never run it down to less than 1/4 tank, because the one time I did, it stumbled going around a corner while pulling out on a busy street! Fortunately, it only lasted a couple of seconds, and I don't cut things close in the T (better safe than dead!). People drive to stupid around here as it is!

 

And if you do build a tank remember draw the fuel from the top of the tank with an internal line to the bottom. That is the trouble I had with the Jap. tank I had in my roadster. It was made to sit low in the car below the carburetor so the outlet was in the bottom of the tank and when I mounted it high in the P.U. bed the weight of the ten or so gallons of fuel pushed past the float needle and dripped. I finally had to installed a shutoff valve.

 

Wow! My tonneau cover is getting rave reviews! My mom stopped down to check on me a bit ago, (I didn't go out to Albert's show today as it's rainy and nasty, and I'm still dealing with breathing issues) and took a look at the tonneau and said "that's the best thing you've ever done"!!!

High praise from local Phoenix daytime T.V.'s fromer "sewing lady"!

I'll get more posted tonight....

 

yep have to agree here and add my 2c worth, it's even worse if you are driving into a head wind or a cross wind, your neck muscles will ache trying to keep your head from rolling all over the place. and x2 on the earplugs although I use headphones an listen to my I pod.

 

Chip, your tonneau cover is awesome! Thanks for the tutorial - I read it this morning before work. Greatly appreciated!

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To all,
Thanks for the comments on fuel tanks, road trips, and most of all the constructive criticism.

Today after work I stopped by the garage to putter around a bit. First thing I did was remove both fuel tanks. Then I made a cardboard template of where I think my pickup bed / floor will go. After that, I could see how much room I was dealing with.

I decided to mock up a fuel tank, again out of cardboard. I decided to make it slightly over half the width of the bed, so I can still center the cap in the bed, but I can have access to some storage on the side. I will definitely be doing a similar tonneau to Chip's! I really need to thank you guys for all the ideas. I made the tank 10" wide, 11" tall, and 24" long with a notch on the bottom for the crossmember. The math yields just shy of 11.5 gallons, but with the notch I figure slightly less than 11. That's three more gallons than I had before, and with more usable bed space, and less clutter! Thanks guys!

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^^^ That's it, looking good.

 

Sooooooooooooo much better!

Honestly, your avatar picts with the EElco smaller tank really don't look too bad. But, the bigger Moon tank is just a bit larger and out of scale to the front end of a 'Bucket, and would be better suited to a deuce of something of that size. The new tank mock ups are looking great!


Gang, I just jumped on to check things out for minute. I'm really having a tough evening with breathing, and Judy has been running a 100 degree temperature all day. I'm gonna go back and lay down so it's easier to breath, but I'll finish posting on the tonneau in the morning.... Sorry 'bout that.

 

Tim, that is an improvement already, you won't regret that choice

 

I'll give an update on my t-not-bucket. The shock mounts are off, one step closer to friction shocks before spring. I had wanted frictions on it from the beginning but was unsure about how to make them. I am so grateful for this thread and all the great tech on it. Thanks guys!

 

Chip, I can understand your breathing issues as I have had Asthma for 55 years and you may need a turn on a Nebulizer. Hope it clears soon. JW

 

Sorry Chip but I'm going to correct you here as Upholsterers and Upholstery covers everything from as you say house furniture, to Auto, Marine, Aircraft and sometimes even bed manufacturers are known as Upholsterers. The word trimmer is from when a young person was learning the trade of being a Upholsterer, they were referred to as a Trimmer due to only allowing to trim up the material for the Upholsterer to sew etc..
Oh yeah Tim, much better without the front tank. And everybody jumped ahead of me suggesting making your own specially designed tank for the pickup bed as I too was concerned about the height the Moon tank stuck up above the bed making it near impossible to have a nice cover like Chips.
I will go out into the storage shed this week and take a photo of my stainless tank but it is huge compared to what room you have to play with. From memory it held the equivalent as my BMW and last time I filled it,it cost $100.00 @ approx. $2.20 per litre.

 

Time to get it back on the road Whip, while the gas price is down. JW

 

Tim, first post here, although I've been lurking for a long time.
Suggestion time, and this is constructive, not hammering.
When the Super Stock guys moved the battery to the trunk, they always put them on the right side to counteract the axle lift on that side.
While this may not be as big an issue for you, I would still suggest that the tank go from the left to past middle right, and the battery on the right side. This constant weight should even out with you sitting on the left.

Although reading through this, you mention tools, supplies and luggage space in there. If you have hidden the battery in a different location, ignore all this, since fuel will probably weigh more than whatever you cram in the remaining space.

Chip, I hope you get better. This thread is a big reason I've come back to haunt HAMB after the big tightening (20%) and the format change (80%). I almost wrote you a big long PM when I sold the race car, but decided that the backlog of projects should be worked on before I start a bucket. I'm still dreaming though!

 

Chip I don't know anything about asthma but the flu shot is almost ineffective this year. Yesterday was the first time I felt good for about two weeks. You and Judy take it easy and call your Dr. if it gets any worse.
Tim your roadster looks so much better with the tank off the front. Some ideas that seem good at the time just don't work out. You will be so proud when you finish a roadster that looks as good as "Tweetie Pie".
Chip started this thread for those who care. I think you are one of those.
Gary

 

That looks a lot better Tim, I like the tank mock-up