Hot Rods The damb painter won't paint

Many years ago when I would get laid off from seasonal work I did paint and upholstery work in my shop to keep the wolf away from the door. Even though I was living hand-to-mouth, I NEVER asked for any front money. I figured if a guy didn't want to pay up, I'd put a lien on the vehicle. Never had a problem. One thing for sure, I worked hard and fast to get the cash flowing my way. If I ever pay anyone to do anything for me, it'll be cash paid at completion of the job or incremental payments in stages of completion. If they can't afford to front the money for materials, I'll find someone who can.

 

Has anyone heard from the OP ?. He's not in jail is he?

 

All of the above is why I learned to do my own own bodywork, paint, upholstery, welding, fabrication, design, et al. I'm not beholding to anyone, I've learned a lot, and if I had to do it over, I did it over.

 

What I found disappointing was the lies. I had no issue with paying the bills when they were honest, which was true for the first 6 months, then they started with falsified billing hours or duplicated tasks. Still I paid probably about $1500 of lies. Then the work just slowed to a task completed every other month....had a come to Jesus meeting, got a "word of honor" promise to finalize on a certain date at an agreed budget...8 months later I picked up everything and left.....and felt lucky I got out as cheap as I did....Creative Rods in upstate SC is damn creative with billings and excuses...ridding around in a redneck truck while billing shop hours....yes, it's damn hard to find good people, but when you do, treat them right!!!....and put it here as well....I still need paint work in Raleigh...


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Simplest answer, posted every time this kinda thing comes up, is a contract with a payment schedule for work completed. Reach milestone X, get paid $Y. That way both sides have enough skin in the game to be serious, but neither side accepts all of the risk.



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Where's the OP? Another drive by poster, getting us all worked up and not coming back with an update. Don't want to pile on but go and get your damn car!

Unfortunately many car guys have unrealistic expectations... they want a show car finish for a Maaco price.

I do my own body work and shoot my own paint... materials alone would eat up a major chunk of the $3K the OP gave the guy. What was he expecting...

 

I am expecting that the work promised, will be done as promised and for the money that was promised.

There are many who advised that I go get my car, and go elsewhere. But when you come right down to it, I'm the only one with any skin in the game here. He and I have continued to communicate via text, some of it hasn't been very nice. I would still like to get the car blocked out and painted, and the work he has done will only make it harder to find someone else to build on his foundation. I finally decided that I would give him one more chance to make things as right as he can at this late date. I told him that I will not wait one minute longer than the end of the year. That was this morning, he thanked me and said he appreciated the extension and he was sorry things have gone as they have. Later today he sent another text, his grandmother had passed.

So, maybe I'm a sucker, I guess it remains to be seen.

Bill

 

Text him back and tell him you are a reasonable man......take a day off to go to the funeral and you will see him Jan 2.

 

Is it any wonder why Therapist's get big money to listen and then require therapy as well.

 

Bill, i won't say you're a sucker. You seem like a thoughtful, caring individual, and I'm hoping all works out well for you. You have received all kinds of advice, and chosen to do what you feel is best. Looking forward to seeing some pics of your A on here down the road.

 

A local guy opened his own body shop a few years back. Many of these guys don't know anything about running a business. They spend the money when it comes in and don't budget well. He hired a guy to do the work and started acting like a big shot around town instead of doing the work. He paid his employee cash. After a couple of years, the guy was behind on his bills and had to let his employee go. The employee applied for unemployment and filed his taxes and the shop owner was in deep trouble. He hadn't paid unemployment, SS or Federal and State taxes. The IRS had his house and shop locked up with several clients cars inside.

 

I guess its getting pretty clear that after all the talk about Macco or the belief that something even as simple as a model A roadster should only cost 4 to 6 grand to do body and paint. Verses what real world cost to run a shop, pay employees ect. 90 % of you cannot afford to pay for the work needed and the shops cannot afford to do it for what your willing to pay. And till both sides accept this fact, this saga will continue! And yes over the years I been just as guilty of taking on jobs I should not have as others. But most of those times revolved around getting the car stripped and finding all the night mares you people post all the time. That moment the budget sky rockets and the crying begins !!! ON BOTH SIDES!!!!~! I can't retire soon enough!

 

OP, Good Luck,, hoping you get your car on new promised delivery, nice of you to continue to work w/ your painter. That being said, following this thread confirms my experiences w/ painters, I am not easy to get along w/ in this type of situation as I owned/ran a Tool & Die/Pattern business for 36 years, in trades entire adult working life, In my business world, the job is completed correctly, as quoted, on time, NO BS or excuses, Period ! You will not be in business for long as BS and/or incompetence will not be tolerated in the industry. It has always amazed me when buying/contracting services, construction and the automotive industry are right on the top of a crap shoot for a good result and when you find a good one, you usually have to wait in line as he is very busy, as he is a good, responsible, business person. I still believe there are way more good people than bad, Have stated this before, Honesty, Integrity, Courtesy are becoming a rarity in our country, Do Not have any answers, just my observations.

 

What everyone should get from this thread:
Get it in writing, terms clearly expressed. What your paying for, what you are getting.
Money up front if requested should be materials only, you can get that back if things fall apart it would be on your car or wasn't used.
Pay as you go with itemized bill for work and material, unforeseen things can pop up especially if your car has been worked on. If things fall apart on both sides, you got what you paid for he got paid for his time.
Take time to look at whats being done.
Cheaper isn't always better.
If you have the time, place and abilities you can do it yourself, not everyone does.
There are good body men and bad business men. Do your homework and don't expect show car quality at the expense of the shop you have doing work.

 

Bill...

yea you are a sucker and so was I. My painter was referred by a good friend and had done some really good work in the past, even a magazine spread on a Nova that was top notch.
For 5 years I put up with excuses from deaths in the family to being sick to kids sick etc. I did everything I could to help him...had his welder repaired...did most of the welding of patch panels and filled 50 plus holes through out the body...spent at least 40 hours of my time doing what ever to help this guy out.

I was at his shop one day working on MY car when a guy comes through the door and starts screaming at me ...where is Lou??? (Thought I was an employee)
I tell him this is MY car and Lou is out to lunch...he looks over at this young helper working on another car and says "he isnt doin that shit again...is he?"

Well I knew right then i was screwed but I was a sucker and gave him the benefit of doubt for a few more months.
So...I know not all painters are crack heads but mine was and he had every excuse in the book to keep me thinking he would finish.
He never did finish my car and it was a HUGE learning lesson. I have had 4 cars painted by different places over the years and never had an experience like this. I only went with this guy because he was a friends tennant and he was just finishing a car and needed some work so he could pay the rent...go get your car...I finally did.

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With most (LONG term complete) jobs requiring more than a few days,
more like 30/90 or more days,
it was/is nice to have Customers show up , at least every 2 weeks to SEE progress,
and bring MO Munny <---meant to be funny...

ya know on the more common cars people WILL spend more on the paint job than they will on
the other components of car maintenance.

 

I agree,
Now let me ask who your customer base were comprised of?
Large corporations? With realistic expectations? With capable budgets?

I'll wager that most have gotten a quote from the responsible, the integrified, the honest, the experienced, the courteous- after the sticker shock they ran here and started a WTF why so expensive thread.

 

Yes Bill I think you may be a sucker. That said I really hope I am wrong. Let us know on Jan 2nd, and I am hoping for the best outcome for you.

 

Good Luck, you will probably need it.

 

OldBill,
Make sure to drop in on him at LEAST once a week to check his progress. And it probably wouldn't hurt to type up a quick contract on your computer to take with you next time you visit. Specify what he will complete by January 2nd and have you both sign it. Send him a text and ask when would be the best time for you to visit, to make sure he's there.

In my day job, if a contractor doesn't complete his work by a pre-set date, he pays liquidated damages for each day until complete. My last project the contractor paid $995 per day.

 

I see that. Also, your dollar signs are succeeding the amounts. Turn the pic over and those dollar signs will scramble back where they belong.

 

Old Bill: The subject stated his Grandmother has passed, and he's going to the funeral.
I suggest you attend the funeral, just in good faith. He'll appreciate it, if he's telling the truth.
Conversely, if you arrive at the funeral home and there's no 'body', (Grandma didn't really die) you'll be relieved to know that he's probably going to fail to meet the year-end deadline.
Sounds 'cold', but best to be 'well advised'. A short prayer being said as I end this.

 

Having painted many cars over the last 50 years, I can say, for me at least, painting cars is FUN! Prepping cars for paint SUCKS! If I had a car in my shop that needed prepping and I had already spent the money for the job, it would be difficult to look forward to starting. Another reason for not paying up front.

 

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I did do all commercial/ industrial work as you cannot do (TOOL/Pattern, Machine shop) business w/ working people on their pet whatever project is, as you cannot run a legit business and make a living dealing w/ that clientele IMO. It was not a bowl of cherries as I came across dishonest people/corporations, that surprised me, (I was very naive) I thought the business world was all apple pie and Chevrolet, IT WAS/IS NOT. Did not get involved w/ that type of customer, got away from them ASAP, it was my life's choice to be a honest, reputable business w/ integrity. I was always Too busy to machine stuff for friends, fellow racers or rodders as the working guy making an hourly wage somewhere around 1/4 of a normal shop rate does not understand how it can be that much, So rather than piss people off, I was just Too Busy, that people will understand. I have traded favors w/ some guys, you can see how that turns out quickly, Very few more than 1X. I do have some compassion for gentlemen in the Automotive Industry as dealing w/ the public has it own set of problem's, To this thread, I understand why a good paint job is expensive, to repeat myself, I just never ran across a legit painter/bodyshop for my hobby stuff (my fault, poor choices, had plenty of chances) other than insurance work on Dailey drivers. There are Good shops put there, trick is finding them IMO.

 

Someone said it earlier in the thread, honest hard working body and paint guys are so busy, they won't be able to touch your project for years!

 

This ^^^^^^^is exactly correct....

 

Old Bill ,you must like getting kicked in the nuts. All your painter hears is "thank you sir may i have another". I would ask him how many relatives he has left alive so you know what year you are going to get your car back. I don't mean to be harsh but damn.

 

I bought a 36 Chevy to restore & street rod. The same week a friend bought a 67 Cuda. The truck was completed in my two car garage, top to bottom, paint, interior, engine, trans, suspension, took three years. My friend's Cuda came back from the paint shop, after three years, the same week we put the truck on the road. His paint is better than mine, took him 3 years to have it done, took me about 3 months and was scratched within weeks. He did send his back at least 2-3 times to get the paint close to perfect, the shop closed during the rework trips and was finished at his home garage.

 

^ and THAT is why i/we liked restoring at LEAST (2 ) of the same AT the SAME time, it cuts the (TIME) process down considerably.

sample: did (2) 1962 Bel Air 409's COMPLETE and the customer'S both enjoyed the fact that every nut and bolt [was/were] apart. one a real, one and one a clone, took us a solid 18 months. and once we did (2) 1974 and (1)1975 vettes at the same time the same way. cuts down on finding and ordering parts.

ah i might add ,not a one man shop, yes it took discipline, but if you have junkers and klunkers in the shop you can (sometimes) utilize the leftover primers and such.

We had young help ALL the time and they learned on the klunkers 1st.

yes OLDBILL shops should ,BOOK em in, on a time frame and follow it , if and when a job was completed EARLY the(our) clients we're ALWAYS happy.

 

Really guys, does a street driven car need a $10,000 paint job? The car in my avatar was painted in my garage 35 years ago with a gallon of $40.00 acrylic enamel. Over the years it has gotten nicks, scratches, fingerprints, mud, and who knows what else. Never had to put a "do not touch" sign on it at shows.