The elusive 224/3.7 MerCruiser banger

I have mine mounted very similar. No one is going to use the original big arch thingy to mount the engine. But if you don't mind me asking, what is your experience with these engines and what is yours in?

 

Boss9 Brian : Mine is a basically stock (for reliability) .030(for cleanup) mildly ported(primarily exhaust) stock iron head, header, tbi, probably Msd (or 'clone'), Toyota water-pump, SBF harmonic balancer(internal balance = no weights), stock iron flywheel, modified Lakewood bellhousing, T-5 : all Craig's list/E-bay/Wrecking yard parts that allowed me to keep the motor/trans cost under $2500. I'm putting it into a '28 AA Ford PU (It's a 'ghost' ; Ford never made a 'dually' roadster PU in '28) & I wanted something that looks like a 'survivor', but would keep up with modern freeway traffic while pulling an open car trailer. Oh yes ; disc brakes(damn near mandatory these days!!) I'm also running full fenders & hood as well(if anybody looks, "It's just a modified 'banger'; nothing special")

 

My engine is in my... living room... boom-tsk...
Naw, seriously, it is.
Kaase Boss9 head, Manley 5.4L conrods (the I beam type), Diamond pistons. Shortblock is 4.4 x 4.18 so 253 cid. Cam is Lunati 220/226 hyd flat tappet regrind with the lobe separation closed up as should be (don't let the poster here who is mistaken get you off track) running NOS Schubeck lifters.
Aluminum flywheel off ebay, clutch from the same, for early 5.0 Mustang, Stage 1 ot 2 I forget- what I need and no more.
Jeep bellhousing from 80-81 when they used GM Iron Dukes and T4's or T5's if you paid extra.
G-Force cased & rebuilt T5 from a 94-95 Mustang V6 (best ratios and long input shaft so everything fits)
AMC Eagle tail housing and transfer case (Np129 IIRC).
Going in a Suzuki Sidekick for a year or two then into (hoping, health and finances hold) a one off retro early 60's car of my own design.

 

Ok so since you have the kaase head what are you running for the fuel system? Injection? Carb? I am going the injection route and we are making a custom intake manifold. So I'm trying to get ideas of how to close the extra space above the lifters.

 

Hey nothing wrong with that at all. Ain't nothing wrong with having a reliable hot rod at all. And thats almost the same thing I tell people "it's just a lil four cylinder"

 

Another question. How do these things run? I got mine and literally pulled it out of the boat myself and it was seized. We have a friend that has one in a buggy with the p51 head but his car has been getting a moly chassis built for the past three years. Do they sit you back pretty good? Lots of torque? High rpm? Just trying to get an idea.

 

Here's my little project. 32 Ford glass body, suicide doors, 3.5" chop top, shaved door handles, 9 inch rear (looking for posi if anyone knows where to get a good price), gour link front and rear, semi roll cage, th350 trans. And this is my first car. I've been building it with my grandpa for three years. I turn 16 in october. I bought the frame rails and welded them myself. It's all a learning experience to me and it teaches me to think creative. But the cool thing now, the engine. 4.440 bore, 4.000 stroke, kaase boss nine head, still researching cam, 10.5:1 compression ratio with custom pistons from JE, stock water pump, driveshaft driven alternator, three row aluminum radiator, planning on using crank fire ignition, two 52mm IDA efi bodies, and a paxton style supercharger. 247 ci and we are expecting about 500 horsepower with the charger on it. Car is only supposed to be 1700-1800 pounds with disc front end and drums on the rear. Light and quick

 

I have a huge (3/4" thick" aluminum plate) I have chamfered the bottom 0.7" at the 8*deg of the intake flange relative to the block gallery.
So the main sealing surface is the main plane of the plate, but the bottom area has its own seal surface. And just a big sheet gasket.
I did add three small holes through the top "lip" of the head casting near the valve cover rail to add clamping points, & to even the clamping out.
I am using Chrysler Intrepid 3.5 V6 throttle bodies x 4 individuals.
If you are using aftermarket "Weber" format TB's DONT use the sidedraft DCOE type- they are a poor match for the port spacing of the head. Use instead IDA "Downdraft" type TB's as they have *exact* correct spacing, and there are (needless to say) no float bowls...lol
Seems like you got that, but it's an easy mistake to make!

As far as how they run- well I thought I'd listen on Youtube for running motors, but it shows you how the spec (CR, Cam, etc) changes things so much. Ness and From's Dragster sounds like a sportbike with its 9500+ rpms... don't hear much in common with the stock marine ones.

As far as someone who drives one of these regularly, on the street IDK, good like finding that person. I've watched for 10-12 years. Some drage cars, some circle track, never really a comparable street project.

 

Then it looks like I'm one of the few. But thank you for letting me know. Are your Chrysler bodies all individual or did you have to seperate them? Maybe I'll look in to that route. I get dealer cost on the CB performance IDA bodies but the chrysler bodies are probably cheaper.

 

If you are using a stroke of 4.18 and a 5.4 rod then what diamond pistons are you using? Also can you give me the calculations rod ratio and compression distance on your piston?

 

Why not? You should. Probably a tubing reproduction, but if you avoid doing something that obvious, you void your right to complain about engine roughness.

Pistons are custom, 1.59"CR . The rods are 6.657 length (169mm), & use a bearing thats 53mm, IIRC 2.085" . I believe I mis-spoke and the stroke is 4.16" not 4.18"

 

As far as motor mounts, I used two of the donut sets out of '49 Ford PU; one pair across the front, & one pair welded to the bell housing, similar to the Model "A" or "A-A" after-market 'float-a-motor' mounts. They support the motor, & were easy to adjust with shims for proper alignment with the rest of the drivetrain. Also cheap & followed the 'KISS' principle('Keep It Simple, Stupid') LOL! My motor originally was one of the late '488' models with @ 190+/- HP, which I felt was enough for my purpose.

 

I'm not complaining about engine roughness. Mine is supported by to rubber mounts up front and a typical th350 tail mount with rubber. But if I run the arch mount then I lose room for my super charger. Essentials first right

 

Even my buddy has one in a buggy that is solid mounted with a VW tranny that is solid mounted. He even lightened the crank 13 pounds. He said it runs smooth at 6600 RPM. The thing has a P51 head and makes 340 horsepower at the rear wheels. the engine is five years old and never broke a motor mount or engine part of any sort. And btw I am running the donut mounts from speedway and like I said, a stock tranny mount in the rear. But iadr, be honest, are you running the front arch support?

 

So here is the rough finish of my closed deck block. Still have to deck it. It has several tough passes on a mill to clean it up though. And the best part, absolutely no warping at all. Just have to counter bore the bolt holes, clean the edges, final pass for decking, then sleeve it/bore/hone and my closed deck 247 block is done!

 

The cylinders look so much smaller now

 

So got some more engine stuff today. One of my friends gave me a completely rebuilt weaver 3 stage dry sump pump. We decided we are going to use an ati balancer as well. Then next week I am going to be resleeving the block to fit my 4.440" bore. Also got all the water jackets put in the deck plate. Then I am also going to run the alternator off the third member to keep the front of the engine clean.

 

A friend who owns a machine shop has been working on one of these for years, We all call it "The Money Pit"

 

Luckily we can do all the work. But if you keep it simple they are an average price. But yeah when you make everything bigger in the internals and change the head it gets pricy.

 

I need to make friends like yours!
I would like to put an external oil pump on mine, even if it was not dry sump. I don't have the room for the oil tank.
A local guy runs hydraulic pumps from a skid steer on a big pulling tractor. He uses one for his oil pump and another for his fuel pump. He figured out the flow he needed and installed cogged pulleys to make it right. (He is a mechanical genius)

 

He builds engines for all the race Porsches and used to build them for the old winston cars. He had a few four stage pumps and a like five three stages. We went with a three stage bc its not a big engine.

 

I've been running mine 6 years on the street, does not seem like that long, perhaps because I run it a while and change things. Engine vibration is no problem at all but then I use soft mounts. The car weighs 1800 lbs. torque is ample. Acceleration depends on the gearing and the rear tires. The cam driven water pump is one of the weak points which should be changed.

 

In 2012 IADR posted (page 33, post 975, with photos) about the different angles used for intake mounting on his Boss head. These heads have threaded holes that are not 90* to the head.

I bought a Trick Flow A460 head for my motor. My intake studs appear to be angled in the same fashon. The intake ports are raised on these heads so the stock intake doesn't line up at all. Making an intake manifold with 3 different angles on the bolts will be a pain. I may use studs on the mounting between the cylinders. The intake may make installing bolts there difficult. The angled mounting will try to pull the intake down the head. Port alignment may be difficult. Alignment pins may be needed. I don't want to weld the mounting holes closed on my new head to machine them square with the head.

 

Mine is mounted like Brian 's with no problems

 

Are the intake manifold mounting stud holes in the Trick Flow head any different from those of a stock Ford head? I use a Ford head. Its holes are not all at useable angles, but there are enough of them at 90 degrees to the flange so that a manifold can be bolted on and seal with just them.
I considered making soft short studs for the "odd" holes and then drilling and tapping across them for studs at the angle I needed as I wanted to use more mounting studs. A thick soft gasket sealed adequately without my doing that.

 

Yes the stud holes in the Trick Flow A460 head are ALL at angles. The 2 outer bolts at the water jackets are angled even more, about 45*. The ports are raised on the Trick Flow A460 head, so even if the studs were at the correct angle and the intake would bolt on the ports would not line up. Stock Ford heads have oval intake ports. The Trick Flow A460 has raised rectangular intake ports.

Notice I put the A460 designation in all of the above. Trick Flow makes other BBF heads also. I don't know what their bolt angle is.

I spoke with Trick Flow this week asking if I could purchase a head without the intake bolt holes machined into them. The short answer is NO.

I am also trying to figure out a way to easily plug the intake mounting holes. I am considering making aluminum studs and installing them with permanent thread locker. I would then cut them flat with the surface. I also considered cutting the threads slightly deeper on aluminum studs, drilling a small hole through the center and using an epoxy (JB Weld type) to permanently secure them. The extra clearance in the threads and the hole is to eliminate hydraulic pressure in the hole, avoiding breakage durring installation.

I will need to build an intake manifold. I can space my mounting bolts differently than the original. I just need to be sure there is plenty of material where I want the new holes. I spoke to another guy who built one. He put 4 bolts around each port. I think that is a little excess.

 

I was going to use soft studs retained with red high temp loktite . You must use loktite primer on aluminum but it has to be squeaky clean and it sets up in seconds. One does not use a lot of it so hydraulic pressure should not be a problem.
Epoxy might cause hydraulic pressure buildup but it gives much more working time however epoxy softens when hot, (JB Weld claims higher temperature resistance) but it may not matter as the plug stud has mostly side load and that should not unscrew it, besides its real purpose is to let you drill and tap the mounting holes .

Get all of your technique worked out on practice aluminum before doing it for real. If it does not work out on the dummy head, you can still sell the expensive head. You must be sweating blood on this one. And yes, The 45 degree end holes were useless .

 

I went down the road of running an A460 head on one of these when I was going to build a drag race turbocharged 3.7, still have the unused head. Are you wanting to run a carb or EFI? My plan was to run EFI and cut up an A460 intake so that it just fed one bank. Have a used intake also. I believe the 3.7 intake could be made to work with the A460 head, but it would likely require an adapter plate between the head and the intake, or lots of welding on the intake. Otherwise I would agree you would need to build an intake to run a carb, and that opens up lots of possibilities and complications.

 

I am planning to run EFI. Cutting an A460 intake would work for EFI but not for a carb because of the angle it will be on. I didn't like the $600 price for an intake I was going to cut the crap out of. For that much I can be well on my way to a sheet metal piece. The Trick Flow A460 intake does have bosses for nitrous. I don't know if they are big enough to put an injector there. There would need to be sheeting added to the A460 intake to close the pushrod area of the block.
I believe modifying the stock Mercruiser manifold to fit the A460 head would defeat the gains of using the head. The ports are not big enough to support the larger head. There is quite a mismatch between the Mercruiser intake and the A460 head so an adapter would be pretty thick.

 

I am unsure what you mean by "soft studs". Do you mean aluminum or grade 3 or 5 steel studs? You are using the iron head so you could install steel studs. I planned to use aluminum studs because that is what my head is.

I am considering using Gore-Tex tape for gasket material. This is the same stuff used to make waterproof boots and clothing. It is available in widths from 1/8" up to sheets. I was considering using some of the 1/8" width which measures about .045" thick. I believe this would work a lot like O-rings. A 100' roll sells for about $140, but I already have some. It has a peal off back on one side and kind-of sticks in place until installed. I see a 1/8" roll on Ebay now for $35 (it is not mine nor do I know the seller). I have used sheet material for piping gaskets, and wider/thicker tape to seal large panels. It is oil and fuel resistant. It seals well and removes easily when disassembled.