When I was in high school, I had an art teacher and he was always talking about "The Eye". Basically, being able to see the way that different shapes, lines and colors form, in order to become something pleasing to the eye. In cars, it's what separates the bad, average and outstanding. Some have it. Some don't. I've also found that a lot of good builders aren't conventional artist, but they have the "eye". I've actually met and worked with a couple. Not T Buckets, either. I didn't ask them, I just watched them work. Hypnotized. This is NOT a thread meant to show faults in others work. I noticed a few new threads by beginners to hot rods and I'd like this to be a discussion on how some of our members start or develop the process of coming up with a "look". Now, my car is a lowly T Bucket, but they're what I like. A T Bucket is a VERY limiting canvas, partly because of what makes it cool to me. It's size. Yet, there are examples of great ones and not so great ones. I've noticed that it's easy to miss the mark, if you're not careful. But how does a beginner REALLY know or learn where the mark is? Some people seem to copy or try to duplicate a successful car and I guess there's nothing wrong with that, but if we all did it, a hot rod parking lot would be rather boring. So, show a few of your favorite hot rods or customs and try and describe what made it your favorite or your idea of what "The Look" is all about. If you think it's your car, so be it. "If a dog has a tail, he should wag it." A quote from the same art teacher. Here are just a few of my favorites. Norwell's truck, HRP's truck and RoyalShifter's T. Now, IN MY EYE, when I spot a car that looks cool or gets my attention, it's not the components, it's HOW they work together. In my EYE, my T Bucket isn't perfect, but it works for the skill level and budget I'm on. I tried for a certain rake and achieved it. The tires are okay, but they were what I could afford at the time. I have yet to paint it, but if I could, it would be black. Interior? It's what I could afford to do and functional, but NOT what I'd like to end up with. But "The Eye" isn't about money. It's not even about having a stash of traditional parts. IMO, if you gave 10 guys an unlimited budget for a build, you'd have 3 great cars and 7 "yea, okay" cars. So, what did the 3 guys do? How or what makes a good rake? How come WWW's look sweet on one car and look wrong on another? Why does a certain engine work in some cars and not others? Basically, "What catches YOUR eye and why?"
56don is right about proportion, but coherence plays a huge role. Coherence of: design, components, period of build style, paint and other finishes. Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
This is one of my favourite topics. It is a complex art to get things just perfect and unified. There are so many cars that have perfect pieces, and yet have no cohesive flow, and there are some that seem to be cobbled together, maybe a little rough, but exactly perfect. It's also easier for most to retroactively design a car that's complete ( like Hetfield's black pearl this year) than it is to design a car from scratch. It is hard to know exactly what gives "the look". I admire guys like Winfield who seem to nail proportion consistently and Brizio and Trepanier who have the gift of overall perfection in the design of almost every build This Sam Foose build was at B J last year and I couldn't explain why I liked it so much. Everything was touched, yet nothing jumps out. For the record, I don't like 39-40 fords, I don't like WWW tires, don't really like the headlights, but I love this car's look. Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
This is a difficult subject to try to explain. I see certain cars and am blown away by how "right" they look. With others, it's obvious the builder tried but didn't quite achieve "it." I think proportion, stance, & coherence all play a part. But there are also certain details that complement the overall design as well as certain details that detract from the overall design. As an example, a lowered car looks "right" to me, but one "laying frame" looks broken to me. The trick is to know when it crosses over from "just right" to "goofy looking." In the Sam Foose '40 referenced above, the side-view mirrors detract from the overall look of the car, at least in my own eyes. It looks like they went to the salvage yard and pulled a pair off a Hyundai or something. Overall the car looks great, the silhouette is just right. But those little details can add up.
as said the proportions of the car are important, and mostly, in my opinion, the proportions of the colors. in the examples you posted; norwells red, whit and the silver are distributed evenly as you look from front to back, royal shifters T the silver and white are at the right proportion, and the green in hrp's truck the same, although i can't tell if it has a green pin stripe which would add to my theory.
Remember the thread the other day where we talked about the "Golden Ratio"? I had never heard of this before, but thought it was very interesting. I think the "Eye" might be cousins to the "Golden Ratio".
For me its "the look" which really is the same as the eye. All about lines. I am amazed when people do not see something is not square or parallel. I think that applies to building rods as well. While a build line may not be square or parallel it is a matter of having the angles correct so that it becomes pleasing to the eye. That I think is the thing that we sometimes do not realize when we see that car that just is right. Flow of ideas is another very important aspect. When a build is not planned out very carefully it becomes lost over time and we all know how long it sometimes takes to get these things done. How many rods have you seen that come out brand new but have dated wheels or other "fad" type ideas, paint especially. That is sort of what makes traditional hot rods so appealing is the "rules" that apply help build a rod that will look good as long as the angles and flow and as mentioned proportions are right. Even the lowly Fad T can be totally screwed up and IMHO very few look good because of it. But when done right they are a killer option that most of the unwashed will pick as their favorite car at any show. They reek of Hot Rod. Details and execution make or break any build.
As a fun exercise, I googled "hot rods" and then looked at images. The images run the gamut from "just right" to "OMG, what were they thinking!" and everything in between. Take a look, and see if you can see elements that make or break a design https://www.google.com/search?q=hot...604GQDw&ved=0CDkQsAQ&biw=988&bih=627#imgdii=_
With a few exceptions California has always had the edge here. I can only guess that it is because the movie industry has drawn so many artistic types over the years and fostered an atmosphere in which people think of aesthetics as much as function, even in purely mechanical art like hot rods. Many people of uncultured backgrounds (in the conventional sense) have this "eye" by nature. Ed Roth and George Barris are 2 examples. Neither had any fine art education, both produced some outstanding works of art.
Just some examples of what I like..... "the Look" if you will that does it for me. The pictures were from the HAMB. Not mine....
I'm honored that my pickup was mentioned in the same thread as Jeffs killer pickup and skipper sweet T,,both these hot rods are in my opinion perfect examples of cars having the look that Fred is talking about. I can't speak for them but I have built my share of cars that missed the mark. My thought process when building the truck not to satisfy anyone but myself,My main focus was to build it to the best of my ability but keep it simple. I knew I wanted a heavy rake,it had to be black and I wanted to have green wheels & wide whites,oddly enough I had the fog lights and knew they would be part of the formula. BTW,there are literately hundreds of other cars & trucks on the Hamb.both hot rods & Customs that have had the "EYE" or "LOOK",mine pales in comparison to many. HRP
The "Eye" of a 14 year old Ray Anderegg... Ok, so I am a bit biased, but it never ceases to amaze me that the basic design was thought up by a 14 year old kid in 1949.... ya, ya, ya, it took him 5 years to realize and I am sure it was influenced here and there by others and by magazines, but according to Uncle Ray he "sketched" the roadster in 8th grade art class in 1949. But there are elements and ingenuity built into this car that nobody had thought to do or were even close to the normal during that time that directly lend to its proportions and look. I am not saying its the perfect hot rod, but I would say its darn close and Uncle Ray's vision certainly belongs in the conversation. This is my build, so its not the original. I admittingly strayed a bit in some of the measurements, and so I can't say its proportions are exact, but they are darn close. And I am still tweaking here and there to bring the two closer. But there are just days that I walk into the garage and it catches my eye just right and a huge smile takes over my face, that Uncle Ray did it so right, and that something close to it sits in my garage.
"proportion & huge role" are great words to go along with your Avatar Fenix! - EM <input id="mac_address" value="" type="hidden">
I start with body style, than stance from there I start adding the correct components ( wheels, tires, mirrors etc) to compliment the style. Paint has a big role in the final product along with any stripping and graphics. The blending of all components, so all parts stand out not just one
....I'm convinced that my sense of hot rod/custom car aesthetics came from looking at the 'little books' decades ago. It was a long term case of visual education where I went through 'like this/hate that' and it altered my judgement and perceptions permanently. Now I know that if I get a gut reaction to a rod or custom, it's out of the ordinary and 'good'. This process certainly helped over the years as I worked on my '46 Lincoln. Looking back on it now, the custom changes that I did or had done, centered on design elements I did not like and had to change to please my eye (and the embedded sense of 'beauty'). On the other hand, there is a downside. I am constantly bored out of my head at most cruises and car shows where taking a chance and being creative takes a vacation, in most cases.
I think getting the proportions right is the answer to it all. Style goes beyond Hot Rods and into almost everything we admire. Think "Italian Design" and marvel at the beautiful lines of stuff that makes you take a long look. Sunglasses, ladies shoes, exotic cars and even cooking utensils are judged on style and function.
I've heard it called "the eye" over here in Australia too. Either you have it or you don't. If you have it you are very lucky. If you don't it is possible to learn it by studying cars that are "right". Unfortunately some people can't see where they went wrong. Having said that, I am very averse to giving bad comments on any hotrod or custom. We all know how hard they are to build.
A lot of very good observations and insights, so far. After I posted this thread, I rode with some friends to the "Rally in the Alley" car show. There was a good mix of hot rods and customs. But there was a Model A Coupe that just grabbed me. It wasn't painted. It was powered by a 4.6 Ford, I believe, and the engine "fit" the car. In other words, it looked like it belonged there. I think it belonged to a member of The Villian's car club and won Best Hot Rod. When I see a hoodless hot rod, I expect to see the engine take up ALL the space between the firewall and the radiator. Take Norwell's P/U. The engine is huge and fills the confines of it's environment. To me, it says, "I WILL blow your doors off because I'm a hot rod.", without even being fired off. HRP, I've ALWAYS loved your truck and I'm not a hot rodded truck fan. I love it because it's just so damn simple. There's nothing added or done, to try and convince someone how cool it is. It draws my eye to the details because there's nothing blocking the view. One day, while getting gas, an older guy was looking at my T Bucket. After all was said, he commented, "It's elegant in it's simplicity." That really struck a cord and while my T does have a few design and flow hiccups, it's as simple as a T Bucket can be. Lack of money kept me from entering the "Fad T" realm. Which is funny because I grew up loving Fad T's. I think a lot of guys, with good intention, get caught up in trying too hard to make a statement. They spend a lot of time and money gathering traditional pieces and feel compelled to use EVERYTHING they found, whether the car needs it or not. They remind me of the noisy group of people in a quiet restaurant. Yea, I get they're having a good time, but they're out of place and rude. Instead of being happy for them, I want them to leave.
good thread Fred. I fell in love with a car on Ebay one Friday night.............I was a regular on Garagejournal but had never been on the HAMB. There were 5 pictures in that Ebay listing. I spent hours trying to figure out what was catching my eye. I saw the car the next day at a local car show...........I didn't hesitate giving the owner what he was asking. Everything about the car screamed hot rod. I might be a little biased but my eye loves this
The first thing I look at is the proportion of the wheels in contrast to the body, frame and wheelbase. The rake of the frame as opposed to the line from the top of the rear tires to the top of the fronts if that's right then in my eyes the stance is right.
I had the guy with the best "kustom" eye I've ever seen explain his reasoning for his modifications years ago and I've never forgotten it. Basically he told me the main think he looks at is the flow of the car, it should look like it's hauling ass while it's parked. The angles must compliment each other. Your roofline must work with your deck lid, your deck lid must work with the quarters, your quarters must work with your wheel wells and so on. The deck lid on his caddy had to be cut into 11 pieces and stitched back together before he was happy with it flowing with the chop, and it worked perfectly with the roof in the end. I had never thought too much about what made a car before but ever since it's very easy to see why some cars look so good. Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
Heres my roadster.. it isn't finished yet but a lot of the details i've utilized have been leaning towards a '40s california sort of style. I've looked through the entire "period correct 40's hot rods" thread and picked out all the nicest parts of all the cars i saw.. the chopped screen (4") which gives it that racey look, without being to the point of a bonneville style chop on a roadster screen.. the swoopy cut down '32 headlight bar i think gives it a bit of class, and helps finish the front off.. the big and little tires to give proportion and stance.. the single fog light.. california function but accessorized at the same time.. I think years of reading the HAMB were what moulded my sense of style and my perception of a car with "the look".
The eye should be inspired, have a lot of things in it's memory bank, know that what it "sees" will look right when it's real. The most amazing eye I've seen yet didn't come from the left coast in the 50s or 60s, didn't come from a TV show, and it was only 22yrs young when he designed and coordinated this build. It inspires today and is as refreshing now as it was then. "Then" was 1931 and the "eye" was that of Franklin Hershey at Murphy in CA. The Peerless 16, seen here in 100% original condition. Much has been noted in the replies of how things work together. Everything on this car works. The fenders were made to appear seamless, doors cut into the roof like aircraft of the time, raw aluminum was masked to create bright trim, and not very many body lines continue throughout. They all blend away when their "job" is done. The visual mass of the interior components as well, all worked to make this 1 of 1 nothing short of remarkable. Sadly Peerless didn't survive and the car was sealed behind a cinder block wall for decades when they shifted from automobiles to beer. I don't know what I was feeling when I finally got to see it in person. I think some soul was involved as well as the eye. Is this what you mean? That which is the topic covers a lot of ground and hot rods and customs surely benefit from a good eye. I think a good eye can always find inspiration. I find it in this example.
proportions are important - thou I'm on my first build I find that I need to keep reminding myself to take my time! When I look at other cars and trucks I find that its easy to see the ones that the builder took his time and the ones that just wanted to get it done . Also I like to have some friends come by at certain points during my project and give me a reality check, to see if I'm going of course another set of eyes will see what sometimes I think is ok! isn't so like I said for me its being able to take my time
Frank Hershey had an eye no doubt. He did say, there was one thing on that Marmon that he never liked. His boss told him to make the grille pointed at the top and flat at the bottom so he did it but the more he looked at it the less he liked it. Another important tip is to shove the car outside and look at it from various distances and all angles. Something that looks good in the garage, or from one angle, may stink from a different perspective.
Thanks for the thoughts guys. Today, I was with some friends and I brought this topic up. They basically mirrored what many of you have stated. But one friend added something that just sounded too simple to be as true as it is. He said, "That's why they're never done." So, that made me think of all the ideas or modifications, that a vehicle owner has, but for what ever reason, doesn't or can't do them. I think a lot of people KNOW what works, but they're vision isn't as fine disciplined as the masters. A couple years ago, I was at the Auto Rama and I was able to be inside during setup. As my friends were setting up their display, I took the chance to walk around and oogle. An older guy was setting up for his '32 Roadster. The paint was Brandywine and the body was straight as a razor. I commented that the paint job must have taken a long time to get as perfect as it was. This old guy sat down and told me how anal his paint and body guy was. He explained, that after the color was sprayed, his painter took out a long fluorescent light and shined it on the car. If he saw the slightest ripple, he stripped it down and redid the body work. He said the car had been painted 4 times. He told me, "There's right and then there's perfect." So, I think another part of having the eye, is being able to go beyond "right" and step into "perfect". I think a lot of us settle for "right", but deep inside, we know something else can be done. It's what makes us keep searching for the PERFECT hubcap. Or maybe the rake could use another degree or not. Constantly looking. Everyone is patting you on the back, telling you how cool it is, and you're wondering if you'll ever find the right bumper bracket. Maybe, it's not a question of having the "eye", but it's the discipline to recognize AND act on it.
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